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  • The Human Cost of AI: A Debate with Miki Johnson

    The Human Cost of AI: A Debate with Miki Johnson
    Oct 19 2025
    Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. In this episode, I’m joined by Miki Johnson – coach, facilitator, and co-founder of Job Portraits, a creative studio that helped companies tell honest stories about their work and culture. Today, Miki leads Leading By Example, where she supports leaders and teams through moments of change – whether that’s a career shift, new parenthood, or redefining purpose. We talk about how to navigate transition with awareness, why enjoying change takes practice, and what it means to lead with authenticity in uncertain times. Miki shares lessons from a decade of coaching and storytelling – from building human-centered workplaces to bringing more body and emotion into leadership. We also explore creativity in the age of AI, and how technology can either deepen or disconnect us from what makes us human. And if you’re interested in these kinds of conversations, we’ll be diving even deeper into the intersection of leadership, creativity, and AI at Responsive Conference 2026. If you’re interested, get your tickets here! https://www.responsiveconference.com/ __________________________________________________________________________________________ 00:00 Start 01:20 Miki's Background and Reservations about AI Miki hasn’t used AI and has “very serious reservations.” She’s not anti-AI – just cautious and curious. Her mindset is about “holding paradox”, believing two opposing things can both be true. Her background shapes that approach. She started as a journalist, later ran her own businesses, and now works as a leadership coach. Early in her career, she watched digital technology upend media and photography – industries “blown apart” by change. When she joined a 2008 startup building editable websites for photographers, it was exciting but also unsettling. She saw innovation create progress and loss at the same time. Now in her 40s with two sons, her focus has shifted. She worries less about the tools and more about what they do to people’s attention, empathy, and connection – and even democracy. Her concern is how to raise kids and stay human in a distracted world. Robin shares her concerns but takes a different approach. He notes that change now happens “day to day,” not decade to decade. He looks at technology through systems, questioning whether pre-internet institutions can survive. “Maybe the Constitution was revolutionary,” he says, “but it’s out of date for the world we live in.” He calls himself a “relentless optimist,” believing in democracy and adaptability, but aware both could fail without reform. Both worry deeply about what technology is doing to kids. Robin cites The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt and says, “I don’t believe social media is good for children.” He and his fiancée plan to limit their kids’ screen time, just as Miki already does. They see it as a responsibility: raising grounded kids in a digital world. Robin sees AI as even more transformative – and risky – than anything before. “If social media is bigger than the printing press,” he says, “AI is bigger than the wheel.” He’s amazed by its potential but uneasy about who controls it. He doubts people like Sam Altman act in the public’s best interest. His concern isn’t about rejecting AI but about questioning who holds power over it. Their difference lies in how they handle uncertainty. Miki’s instinct is restraint and reflection – question first, act later, protect empathy and connection. Robin’s instinct is engagement with vigilance – learn, adapt, and reform systems rather than retreat. Miki focuses on the human and emotional. Robin focuses on the structural and systemic. Both agree technology is moving faster than people can process or regulate. Miki uses curiosity to slow down and stay human. Robin uses curiosity to move forward and adapt. Together, they represent two sides of the same challenge: protecting what’s most human while building what’s next. 10:05 Navigating the Tech Landscape Miki starts by describing how her perspective has been shaped by living in two very different worlds. She spent over a decade in the Bay Area, surrounded by tech and startups. She later moved back to her small hometown of Athens, Ohio—a progressive college town surrounded by more rural areas. She calls it “a very small Austin”, a blue dot in a red state. She loves it there and feels lucky to have returned home. Robin interrupts briefly to highlight her background. He reminds listeners that Miki and her husband, Jackson, co-founded an employer branding agency called Job Portraits in 2014, the same year they got married. Over eight years, they grew it to around 15 full-time employees and 20 steady contractors. They worked with major startups like DoorDash, Instacart, and Eventbrite when those companies were still small—under 200 employees. Before ...
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    57 Min.
  • The Art of Telling Stories with Bobby Podesta

    The Art of Telling Stories with Bobby Podesta
    Sep 21 2025
    Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. In this episode, I’m talking with Bobby Podesta, longtime Pixar animator and storyteller. We dig into why storytelling and art matter, and why finding your own voice is more important than copying anyone else. Bobby opens up about his journey as an artist, the imposter syndrome he’s faced, and how he learned to create art in a style that’s truly his. We talk about how he turned a written novel into a graphic novel, translating dialogue and descriptions into illustrations along the way. He shares lessons from his college design teacher about noticing the art all around us—not just in museums or galleries. We also explore how design and storytelling balance function and emotion, in ways you might not even realize in everyday life. Bobby’s story shows that creativity isn’t about perfection – it’s about showing up and being authentic. He gives a fresh perspective on how storytelling shapes the way we see the world and connect with others. This episode is full of insights for anyone who cares about art, design, and telling stories that matter. 00:00 Start 03:13 The Importance of Human Connection in Storytelling Bobby on storytelling Background: 30 years in film, always thinking about story structure. Drama is about “what you’re both keeping back and what you’re waiting to surprise your audience with.” Steve Jobs anecdote Jobs builds suspense with “one more thing.” On stage, he asks: “Has anyone ever wondered what this small pocket is for?” (the tiny jeans pocket). Instead of something expected like a coin, he pulls out “the world’s smallest iPod and people flip out.” Why it works: audience knows the pocket’s size → no need to explain iPod’s dimensions. Structure: setup → familiar norm → question → twist → payoff. Bobby’s takeaway: “That’s really good storytelling, man. It’s really good storytelling.” “People call him a salesperson. Like he’s a great salesman. He’s a great storyteller. If you can tell a good story, you’re pulling people in. That’s the key.” Robin on storytelling & AI His work is making commercials and mini-docs for startups. Says video itself doesn’t matter as much as impact: “What I care about is changing human behavior and changing human emotion.” Believes the value of human storytelling is timeless: “The value of sitting at Homer’s feet and listening to him recite the Iliad is never going to go away.” Bobby on storytelling & art Storytelling = fundamental way to convey and connect. Sees it like art: “Art is a way to express your opinion and how you process the world around you in a manner that hopefully other people can experience and relate to.” Calls art his “oldest friend, who I’ve probably treated the worst… neglected, starved, and then expect it to show up and perform.” Believes everyone can create: “Art is not a zero-sum game… art is ultimately subjective because art is an opinion about how you see the world.” Goal of art/storytelling: help others “find some relationship to the world around them through it.” 06:01 Art as a Form of Expression Robin’s setup Grew up between an artist mother and entrepreneur father – “perfect intersection” of art + business. Distinguishes museum art (“old, on walls”) from art that’s “around us all the time.” Points out modern communicators (Musk, Trump) as powerful storytellers/branders – even if you disagree with the content, “that is great art in the form of good communication.” Asks: why do we separate “high” art (Iliad, museums) from everyday, cultural storytelling (Pixar, branding)? Art is everywhere Bobby uses the car-buying analogy to explain awareness: “You’re looking for a midsize pickup and suddenly you see them everywhere. They didn’t just appear. You’re just paying attention.” Art works the same way – once you start noticing, you realize it’s all around you. Lesson from a design teacher: “If it wasn’t dug up or grown, it’s designed.” Everything man-made carries intention – and therefore, art. Pushes back on the museum-only view of art: “Saying art is only in museums is like saying there are only cars at dealerships. There are cars everywhere. There’s art everywhere.” Examples of art woven into daily life: Clothing, headphones, glasses Desks, chairs, pottery, textiles Buildings, skylines, sidewalk prints Freeway dividers, lamps Even tools: “Go get a hammer. The handle’s probably painted a color. It may be a penny’s worth of art, but it’s art, man.” Definition of art: “All these things are working with that balance between functionality and making you feel something.” Even branding choices – a color, a shape – are designed to evoke feeling. Perspective shift: Once you adjust your lens, “there’s a lot of art out there. It’s really, really amazing.” ...
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    52 Min.
  • Soft Skills Are The Hard Currency Of The Future with Josh Levine

    Soft Skills Are The Hard Currency Of The Future with Josh Levine
    Sep 6 2025

    Hi everyone, welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander.

    This episode is a little different - instead of me hosting, I was actually the guest on my good friend Josh Levine’s podcast, Great Mondays Radio.

    Josh and I went deep on a topic I care about a lot: why soft skills are the hard currency of the future. We explored what really sets humans apart in an age of rapid innovation, the rise of AI, and all the talk about machines taking over jobs. We dug into the skills that can’t be automated, the value we bring that AI can never replicate, and why those human capabilities will only matter more in the years ahead.

    We also touched on leadership, creativity, and how we can all prepare ourselves - and our organizations - for the changes still to come.

    Please take a moment to subscribe to Josh’s show, Great Mondays Radio. It would mean a lot to both of us, and I know you’ll enjoy the incredible conversations he’s hosting.

    I’m also excited that Josh will be joining us at Responsive Conference 2025 as a guest - so this won’t be the last time you hear from him in our orbit.
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    40 Min.
  • How to Not Know with Simone Stolzoff

    How to Not Know with Simone Stolzoff
    Aug 22 2025
    Welcome back to Snafu w/ Robin Zander. In this episode, I’m joined by Simone Stolzoff – author of The Good Enough Job and the upcoming How to Not Know – and our opening keynote speaker at Responsive Conference 2025. We explore what it means to have an identity beyond your job title, why rest is essential for high performance, and how ritual and community offer grounding in an age of uncertainty. Simone shares how Judaism and Shabbat have shaped his views on balance, the role of “guardrails” over boundaries, and how we can build more durable lives – personally and professionally. We talk about the future of religion, the risks and opportunities of AI, and why books still matter even in a tech-saturated world. Simone also offers practical writing advice, previews his next book, and explains why embracing uncertainty may be the most valuable skill of all. Simone will be speaking live at Responsive Conference 2025, September 17–18, and I can’t wait for you to hear more. If you haven’t gotten your tickets yet, get them here. Start (00:00) Identity Beyond Titles (01:07.414) What identities do you hold that aren't listed on your LinkedIn? Simone’s Answer: Ultimate frisbee player – “the entirety of my adult life” Aspiring salsa dancer – taking intro classes with his wife Former spoken word poet – “It was the most important thing to me when I was 19 years old.” New father – navigating life with a five-month-old "I encourage people to ask: what do you like to do, as opposed to what do you do?" Shabbat as a Sanctuary in Time (01:58.831) Robin references Simone's TED Talk, focusing on Shabbat as a metaphor for boundary-setting and presence. Simone expands: Shabbat offers a weekly rhythm to separate work from rest. Emphasizes the idea of "sacred time" and intentional disconnection from screens. Shabbat is a “sanctuary in time,” paralleling physical sanctuaries like churches or synagogues. Relates this to work-life balance, noting that intentions alone aren't enough – infrastructure is needed. "We have intentions… but what actually leads to balance is structural barriers." Boundaries vs. Guardrails (04:44.32) Cites Anne Helen Petersen’s metaphor: Boundaries = painted lane lines Guardrails = physical barriers that actually keep you on the road There are calls for more guardrails (structural protections) in modern life. Examples: Airplane mode during playtime with his kid Attending yoga or activities where work can’t creep in "Individually imposed boundaries often break down when the pressures of capitalism creep in." Religion, Ritual & Community (06:48.57) Robin asks how Judaism has shaped Simone’s thinking around work and life. Simone reflects: Religion offers a “container” with a different value system than capitalism. As organized religion declined, people turned to work for identity, meaning, and community. Religion can offer rituals to process uncertainty — e.g., mourning rituals like sitting shiva. Religious or community spaces offer contrast: they don’t care about your career success. "Religion is sort of like a container… with a value system that isn't just about growth charts." "It can be refreshing to say: Day 1, do this. Day 7, go for a walk." Personal journey: Simone reconnected with Judaism in his 30s as he built his own family. Once, went out of obligation, then rejected it, and now see beauty in ritual and intergenerational wisdom. The Future of Religion & Community (09:12.454) Robin theorizes a future rise in spiritual and communal gatherings: Predicts new spiritual movements or evolutions of old ones Notes a hunger for meaningful in-person connection, especially post-AI and amid tech saturation "There's a hunger... as AI and screens define how we relate, people want to gather in person." "I don’t tend to make predictions, but I think this one’s inevitable." Simone agrees... but offers data as contrast: Cites the decline in religious affiliation in the U.S. 1950s: 3–4% unaffiliated Today: Nearly 1 in 3 identify as “Nones” (no religion) Notes reasons: Rising wealth tends to increase secularism The internet creates alternate identity spaces "I do believe there is inevitability in the growth [of spirituality]... But the data points the opposite way." Simone reflects on the factors behind declining religious affiliation: Doubt now builds community – the internet has enabled people to connect around leaving religion as much as practicing it. Political entanglement – many young Americans, especially, are alienated by the perceived overlap between right-wing politics and Christianity. Yet despite this secular trend, the need for meaning, ritual, and purpose remains universal. “There still is this fundamental need to find meaning, to find purpose, to find ritual… even if it’s not in the forms we’re used to.” A Church in the Mission (13:07.182) ...
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    54 Min.
  • Today Was Fun with Bree Groff — How to Design for Better Work

    Today Was Fun with Bree Groff — How to Design for Better Work
    Aug 15 2025
    Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. In this episode, I’m joined by Bree Groff, consultant, writer, and author of Today Was Fun. We talk about why mischief belongs at work, how humor and flirtation create real psychological safety, and the bold design choices behind her unforgettable book cover. Bree shares how she moved from CEO roles to full creative freedom, and how that shift helped her find her voice. We discuss marketing in 2025, how AI might reshape work and writing, and why personal agency, not hours, is the most important lever in a workweek. Bree offers practical insights for leading with joy, helping kids future-proof their lives, and deciding what’s “enough” in a world that always demands more. She also reflects on writing the book while parenting, consulting, and building her own business, and what it means to embrace the joy of not knowing what comes next. Bree will also be joining us live at Responsive Conference 2025, and I’m thrilled for you to hear her on stage. If you haven’t gotten your tickets yet, get them here. Books Trickster Makes This World: Mischief, Myth, and Art — Lewis Hyde Anansi Boys — Neil Gaiman Work Less, Do More: Designing the 4-Day Week — Alex Pang Shorter: Work Better, Smarter, and Less―Here's How — Alex Pang Rest: Why You Get More Done When You Work Less — Alex Pang Perennial Seller: The Art of Making and Marketing Work that Lasts — Ryan Holiday Today Was Fun — Bree Groff The 4-Hour Workweek —Tim Ferriss Responsive: What It Takes to Create a Thriving Organization — Robin Zander Podcasts/Videos TED Talk: How to Start a Movement — Derek Sivers Start (0:00) The Story Behind the Book Cover (00:07.822) Robin opens with a personal observation: Bree’s nails are the exact shade of green as her book cover – a smiley face on a highlighter yellow-green background. Bree laughs and explains the choice behind the bold, offbeat cover: It was designed by Rodrigo Corral, known for iconic covers like The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fck*. When she first saw it (at 3 a.m.), she gasped and loved it — it stood out and made a statement. The smiley is cheeky but not cheesy; it suggests optimism with a bite. The color isn’t quite yellow — it’s that “gross green” that almost hurts to look at. That tension is the point. “It’s got some edge... not your straight-up yellow.” This tension – bright and fun, but just a bit weird or off – is exactly the tone she wanted for the book and for herself. The Wink That Makes Work Fun Again (01:51) Robin brings up his old graduation photo: he posed slightly off-center, adding a knowing smirk. At the time, he didn’t know why he chose that shot, but later realized it made people curious, like a small rebellion baked into something formal. Bree relates completely. She talks about: Why humor and a bit of mischief matter in professional settings. The concept of flirtation – not romantic, but playful: A wink in a branding campaign. A reference that only a few insiders get. A running joke between team members. Mischief creates risk and intimacy, both essential for real connection. These small acts of rebellion are actually signs of psychological safety and creativity. “You need a little bit of flirtation at work... a wink that says, ‘we’re in this together.’” She argues that fun isn’t a distraction – it’s a sign that something is working. Tricksters, SNAFUs, and the Role of Risk in Work (05:49.219) Robin brings in the idea of the trickster, from folklore characters like Anansi and Coyote to his podcast title SNAFU. These figures don’t follow the rules, and that’s what makes them interesting. Bree expands on the connection between play and professionalism: There’s a cultural script that says “seriousness = competence.” But in her experience, some of the best work moments involve play, risk, and even slight embarrassment. Being human together – laughing too loud, saying something weird, trying something bold – is what builds bonds. Real joy at work comes from these edge moments, not the sanitized ones. “You have to go beyond professionalism to access the most fun parts of work.” They agree that creating spaces where people can color outside the lines is not just fun – it’s productive. Beyond Palatable: From People-Pleasing to Belonging (08:29.068) Robin shares a lesson from his mother: that once you leave high school, life is no longer a popularity contest. But he’s realized that in business, especially branding, people often still chase approval and “likability.” Bree offers a deeper lens: Being “palatable” – meaning universally acceptable – is actually the opposite of being memorable. People who try to please everyone end up blending in. What she wants is to be delicious, or at least striking, not for everyone, but unforgettable to some. She draws a line between Fitting in: ...
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    1 Std.
  • How The Future Works with Brian Elliott

    How The Future Works with Brian Elliott
    Aug 3 2025
    Welcome back to Snafu w/ Robin Zander. In this episode, I’m joined by Brian Elliott, former Slack executive and co-founder of Future Forum. We discuss the common mistakes leaders make about AI and why trust and transparency are more crucial than ever. Brian shares lessons from building high-performing teams, what makes good leadership, and how to foster real collaboration. He also reflects on raising values-driven kids, the breakdown of institutional trust, and why purpose matters. We touch on the early research behind Future Forum and what he’d do differently today. Brian will also be joining us live at Responsive Conference 2025, and I’m excited to continue the conversation there. If you haven’t gotten your tickets yet, get them here. What Do Most People Get Wrong About AI? (1:53) “Senior leaders sit on polar ends of the spectrum on this stuff. Very, very infrequently, sit in the middle, which is kind of where I find myself too often.” Robin notes Brian will be co-leading an active session on AI at Responsive Conference with longtime collaborator Helen Kupp. He tees up the conversation by saying Brian holds “a lot of controversial opinions” on AI, not that it’s insignificant, but that there’s a lot of “idealization.” Brian says most senior leaders fall into one of two camps: Camp A: “Oh my God, this changes everything.” These are the fear-mongers shouting: “If you don’t adopt now, your career is over.” Camp B: “This will blow over.” They treat AI as just another productivity fad, like others before it. Brian positions himself somewhere in the middle but is frustrated by both ends of the spectrum. He points out that the loudest voices (Mark Benioff, Andy Jassy, Zuckerberg, Sam Altman) are “arms merchants” – they’re pushing AI tools because they’ve invested billions. These tools are massively expensive to build and run, and unless they displace labor, it’s unclear how they generate ROI. believe in AI’s potential and aggressively push adoption inside their companies. So, naturally, these execs have to: But “nothing ever changes that fast,” and both the hype and the dismissal are off-base. Why Playing with AI Matters More Than Training (3:29) AI is materially different from past tech, but what’s missing is attention to how adoption happens. “The organizational craft of driving adoption is not about handing out tools. It's all emotional.” Adoption depends on whether people respond with fear or aspiration, not whether they have the software. Frontline managers are key: it’s their job to create the time and space for teams to experiment with AI. Brian credits Helen Kupp for being great at facilitating this kind of low-stakes experimentation. Suggests teams should “play with AI tools” in a way totally unrelated to their actual job. Example: take a look at your fridge, list the ingredients you have, and have AI suggest a recipe. “Well, that’s a sucky recipe, but it could do that, right?” The point isn’t utility, it’s comfort and conversation: What’s OK to use AI for? Is it acceptable to draft your self-assessment for performance reviews with AI? Should you tell your boss or hide it? The Purpose of Doing the Thing (5:30) Robin brings up Ezra Klein’s podcast in The New York Times, where Ezra asks: “What’s the purpose of writing an essay in college?” AI can now do better research than a student, faster and maybe more accurately. But Robin argues that the act of writing is what matters, not just the output. Says: “I’m much better at writing that letter than ChatGPT can ever be, because only Robin Zander can write that letter.” Example: Robin and his partner are in contract on a house and wrote a letter to the seller – the usual “sob story” to win favor. All the writing he’s done over the past two years prepared him to write that one letter better. “The utility of doing the thing is not the thing itself – it’s what it trains.” Learning How to Learn (6:35) Robin’s fascinated by “skills that train skills” – a lifelong theme in both work and athletics. He brings up Josh Waitzkin (from Searching for Bobby Fischer), who went from chess prodigy to big wave surfer to foil board rider. Josh trained his surfing skills by riding a OneWheel through NYC, practicing balance in a different context. Robin is drawn to that kind of transfer learning and “meta-learning” – especially since it’s so hard to measure or study. He asks: What might AI be training in us that isn’t the thing itself? We don’t yet know the cognitive effects of using generative AI daily, but we should be asking. Cognitive Risk vs. Capability Boost (8:00) Brian brings up early research suggesting AI could make us “dumber.” Outsourcing thinking to AI reduces sharpness over time. But also: the “10,000 repetitions” idea still holds weight – doing the thing builds ...
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    1 Std. und 4 Min.
  • The Difference Between Happiness and Joy with Pamela Larde, PhD

    The Difference Between Happiness and Joy with Pamela Larde, PhD
    Sep 14 2024

    Hello and welcome back to Snafu, a podcast about behavior change.

    Pamela Larde, PhD is a scholar and expert on the topic of joy. She is the author of Joyfully Single: A Revolutionary Guide to Enlightenment, Wholeness, and Change and a professor of Leadership Development at Anderson University. Her mission is to help develop leaders who lead with heart.

    Pamela illustrates the role of joy as a powerful tool, empowering individuals to cultivate resilience and gracefully navigate the myriad challenges life presents. Through her teachings, the concept of joy transforms into more than just an emotion—it becomes a reservoir of strength, an anchor of optimism, and a guide to living life to the fullest.

    In this episode, we talk about the importance of joy at work and in life, the difference between happiness and joy, what to expect from her at Responsive Conference, and more.

    Pamela is an official speaker at Responsive Conference 2024! If you haven’t yet, get your tickets here: https://www.responsiveconference.com/tickets

    It was a pleasure having Pamela on the podcast!
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    21 Min.
  • How to Build Exceptional Relationships with Carole Robin, PhD

    How to Build Exceptional Relationships with Carole Robin, PhD
    Sep 9 2024

    Hello and welcome back to Snafu, a podcast about behavior change.

    For today’s episode, I sat down with Carole Robin, PhD – an expert in leadership development and interpersonal dynamics. She is best known for her work at Stanford Graduate School of Business, where she taught the infamous "Interpersonal Dynamics" course. This course is considered one of the most transformative experiences for MBA students.

    Her expertise in this field led her to co-author the book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends and Colleagues, which was featured as one of Bloomberg's Best Books of 2021.

    In this episode, we talk about the key to great leadership, why relationships are so important in your life, what we can expect from her at Responsive Conference 2024, and more.

    Carole is an official speaker at Responsive Conference 2024! If you haven’t yet, get your tickets here: https://www.responsiveconference.com/tickets

    It was a pleasure having Carole on the podcast!
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    47 Min.