Even traditional contracts can be collaborative with the right team. As a seasoned infrastructure leader who has served in government, private sector, and advisory roles for more than 15 years, Fred Antunes has seen this firsthand. His extensive experience delivering large-scale projects under P3s, design-builds, and collaborative models guides this wide-ranging and nuanced conversation with Riccardo. Together, they unpack truths and myths around what makes projects work.

Fred’s real-world insights help to highlight the power owners have to shape project relationships and outcomes, the dangers of shifting risk without support, and why alliance contracts call for experienced and deeply engaged teams.

Fred and Riccardo reframe collaboration beyond just a type of contract and offer up a compelling case for considering the unique needs, risks, and capabilities of each project team when choosing a delivery approach.

• The right people, mindset, and approach—not the contract itself—determine whether a project is truly collaborative (and successful).
• Fair and active engagement from owners through major programme challenges can mean the difference between a frictionless project and a contentious one.
• When public infrastructure contracts push all risk onto the contractor, collaboration breaks down—and so does performance.
• Having the right people on the team during high-stress phases can turn a failing project around, even if it means personnel changes.
• Experience across public and private sectors builds a more well-rounded, adaptable perspective on project delivery.

Quote:

“The ​thing ​about ​the ​alliance ​that's ​really ​interesting ​is, it’s ​like ​setting ​up ​a ​new ​company. ​Where ​you ​basically have an ​alliance ​leadership ​team ​​that ​is ​providing oversight ​and ​direction. ​They're ​like ​the ​board ​of ​directors. ​You ​appoint ​somebody ​who's ​the ​CEO ​and ​then ​you ​basically ​create ​an ​organization ​that ​includes ​people ​from ​the ​owner, ​the ​designer, ​the ​contractor, ​put ​them ​together ​and ​you ​may ​have ​somebody ​from ​the ​owner's ​team ​managing ​somebody ​who's ​in ​the ​design ​team, ​or ​in ​the ​construction ​team, ​but ​they're ​all ​working ​for ​the ​best ​outcome ​of ​the ​project. ​And ​working ​as ​one ​coherent ​management ​team.” - Fred Antunes

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What does it take to lead with integrity and empathy in an industry where technical expertise can quickly outweigh human connection? In this episode of the Master Builder series, Ethel Craft joins Riccardo and Shormila to reflect on a career rooted in service—from her beginnings in social services to her leadership role in Ottawa’s rail construction program.

Ethel shares how a leadership course during her MBA sparked her passion for mentoring others, ultimately guiding her to pursue a Doctorate in Business while working full-time. Through personal challenges, professional pivots, and academic milestones, Ethel has remained grounded in one goal: to be a role model and a connector. She leads with a deep respect for the people around her and a clear-eyed view of stakeholder relations. Her track record highlights the vital balance leaders must strike between respect for those around them and confidence that they have earned their place, regardless of the journey that brought them to the table.

Within this celebration of Ethel’s achievements is an invitation to re-envision what leadership can look like, in infrastructure and beyond.

Key Takeaways:

• Genuine care and passion can take you further in leadership than a degree in your chosen industry.
• A strong support network makes all the difference as you chase your goals through life’s inevitable challenges.
• Imposter syndrome is common, even among accomplished leaders, but it shouldn’t define your path.
• Seeking to be a good role model can have a significant positive influence on your path to success.
• Real leadership is less about having all the answers and more about creating space for others to shine.

Quote:

“I ​felt ​like ​I ​was ​just ​draining ​everything ​within ​me, ​and ​at ​the ​same ​time, ​I ​needed ​to ​be ​a ​mom. ​And I ​was ​working, ​too. So, ​it ​was ​hard. ​But ​I ​had ​this ​amazing ​supervisor who ​just kept ​telling ​me, ​you ​can ​do ​this. ​Never ​putting ​pressure ​on ​me, telling ​me ​to ​take ​the ​time. ​And ​so ​when ​I ​talk ​about ​having ​a ​support ​system, ​it's ​a ​word ​that ​we ​take ​for ​granted, right? ​​But ​to ​have ​that ​network ​around ​you ​that ​makes ​you ​feel ​full ​on ​the ​inside is ​crucial.​” - Ethel Craft

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Uncharted Conversations facilitates unscripted and controversial discussions aimed at disrupting the infrastructure industry. In the face of major skills shortages affecting Canada’s major programmes, Riccardo sits down with David Ho, the National Leader for Healthcare and Buildings at Accenture. What begins as a look at the skill-based industry shortcomings transforms into a nuanced conversation about cultural, structural, and leadership challenges.

Is the talent shortage just about trades and technical labour, or are we also seeing a void in leadership and bold thinking? Together, David and Riccardo dig into why the industry struggles to innovate, what it would take to truly break from tradition, and how a fear-based approach to risk weakens even the most capable leaders. They explore how changing political priorities, unclear project outcomes, and resistance to outside ideas further complicate the path forward.

This conversation challenges long-held assumptions and invites anyone involved at every stage of the infrastructure delivery lifecycle to have the kinds of discussions that, David and Riccardo argue, are essential to carrying the industry into the future.

Key Takeaways:

• Current labour shortages may be overshadowed by a systematically hindered approach to leadership.
• The shift of project outcomes over time, while often unavoidable, creates missed opportunities for the implementation of new technologies.
• Fear of risk is an intrinsic part of the industry’s culture, discouraging first movers and stifling the bold leadership required for innovation.
• Venture capital constraints and razor-thin contractor margins leave little room for research and development.
• Remote and underserved communities could be catalysts for innovation—if approached with intention.
• How a uniqueness bias prompts us to reject international approaches that could help Canada adapt and improve.

Quote:

“I encounter lots of different infrastructure leaders and usually conversations where these individuals are reflecting on their own organizations or on other organizations. Somewhere within the diagnosis is a problem of disempowerment. And that when people and leaders are not truly empowered, they fail to live up to what are their on paper accountabilities. And lack of empowerment at all different levels of leadership causes people to put the blinders on, work in their silo and become content or comfortable being told what to do. And ​that ​is ​the ​sort ​of ​exact ​​opposite ​type ​of ​outcome ​and ​behaviour ​we ​want ​from leaders.” - David Ho

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How do we build better cities that hold community in as high regard as revenue? It starts with an approach to urban infrastructure that goes beyond roads and bridges. In this episode of Navigating Major Programmes, Riccardo sits down with Matti Siemiatycki, Director of the Infrastructure Institute and a professor at the University of Toronto.

Matti draws from both his academic work and practical involvement in major projects to outline the potential of community impact, intentional design, and interdisciplinary collaboration. The right balance of these components can change the way cities are built and expand their positive impacts exponentially.

From reimagining schools and fire stations as mixed-use spaces to championing health-oriented communities, Matti offers a compelling argument for infrastructure that does more than meet technical needs. He explains why universities are uniquely positioned to support community-driven projects, how the Infrastructure Institute leverages academic insight into real-world support, and why we need a mindset shift to make the most of aging public assets.

With case studies that range from TIFF Bell Lightbox to stacked fire stations, this episode challenges conventional thinking. Matti designs a hopeful vision for what’s possible when planners, policymakers, and local communities work together by design.

Key Takeaways:

• The measures that can mitigate the long-held divide between academic research and infrastructure practice.
• How mixed-use public buildings can maximize land value and community benefit when intentionally designed.
• The vital support role universities can play by helping non-profits and public agencies navigate complex early-stage urban planning work.
• Where social-purpose infrastructure has moved beyond the theoretical into tangible action in Canada.
• Why rethinking underutilized land and public assets isn’t just about financial return—it’s a matter of long-term social value and good land stewardship.

Quote:

“I've become really engaged on this idea that we can build schools differently and that you can have a stack school. Reimagining what a mixed use school might look like. You have to make sure that the building is safe and that there's no unsupervised access between the different uses. There's always questions about where the schoolyard is going to go. Because a lot of the communities we're building now are very dense and so there's questions about like, can you have some part of the school yard on the roof of the building, for example, so it's a shared use. How does the housing actually fit up above and how do they access it?" - Matti Siemiatycki

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What does it take to lead major programmes in one of the world’s most complex, highly regulated, and rapidly evolving sectors? Carol Tansley has built a career doing just that. In this episode of the Master Builder series, she joins Riccardo to talk about her unconventional path to leadership in the nuclear industry. Carol takes listeners through her early days in international consulting, a transformative period working in Saudi Arabia, up to her current role spearheading major nuclear projects at X-Energy in Maryland.

Carol offers a candid look at what it means to lead with strategy and humility. She shares how returning to school mid-career helped sharpen her focus and how stakeholder alignment is the biggest differentiator of success. They also explore why complex infrastructure projects demand more than technical skills—genuine engagement, curiosity, and a deep respect for collaboration are equally essential. Whether you’re already in the field or considering your options in programme management, Carol’s humble and holistic perspective is a powerful reminder of how valuable and versatile project leadership can be.

Key Takeaways

• Strong project leadership is powered by vision, adaptability, and people skills, as much or more than by technical knowledge.
• How unfamiliar or challenging environments can accelerate your leadership growth if you focus on creating value for others.
• The factors shaping nuclear energy’s resurgence, from policy to AI and decarbonization.
• The importance of minimizing first-time risks in successful major programme management.
• The truth of infrastructure projects: it is less about individual brilliance and more about coordinated collaboration across hundreds of contributors.

Quote:

“But ​I ​would ​say, ​you ​know, ​from ​an ​early ​stage ​in ​my ​career, ​I ​think ​the ​thing ​you ​learn ​more ​than ​anything ​is, ​I'll ​call ​it ​stakeholder ​management, ​for ​want ​of ​a ​more delicate ​expression. ​You ​know, ​the ​ability ​to ​be ​able ​to ​help ​people. ​I ​mean, ​something ​somebody ​told ​me ​years ​and ​years ​ago, ​and ​this ​wasn't ​even ​in ​a ​work ​context, ​was ​when ​there's ​somebody ​standing ​in ​front ​of ​you, ​what ​you ​should ​do ​is ​look ​and ​think, ​how ​can ​I ​help ​this ​person? ​And ​I ​think ​if ​you ​bring ​that ​kind ​of ​mindset, ​you ​know, ​what ​can ​you ​do ​to ​try ​and ​make ​everybody ​else ​successful? ​That ​really ​helps. An ​ability ​to think ​about ​how ​you ​add ​value on ​other ​people's ​terms, ​not ​just ​what ​is ​valuable ​in ​your ​context. ​And ​I ​feel ​like ​that, that ​has ​served ​me ​quite ​well ​wherever ​I've ​been. ​You ​know, ​ability ​to. ​And ​the ​willingness ​to ​listen ​and ​understand ​what ​it ​is ​other ​people ​are needing ​and ​what ​will ​help ​them ​to ​be ​successful.” - Carol Tansley

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In the second installment of this two-part series on public–private partnerships (P3s), Riccardo and his expert guests move from theory to practice, digging into the real-world complexities and nuances that make or break these projects. Emily Moore (University of Toronto), Pouya Zangeneh (University of Calgary), and Rob Pattison (Rob Pattison Consulting) return to share lessons from the field and reflections on how innovation, collaboration, and contract design shape project outcomes.

Together, they explore why achieving true output-based specifications is so challenging in regulated environments, when P3s work best for complex projects, and how to balance innovation with safety and quality. The conversation also delves into the human factors behind success: how courage, trust, and integrity influence outcomes far more than contract structures alone.

From navigating biases in project estimation to building the conditions for genuine collaboration, this episode offers a candid look at what it takes to deliver high-quality infrastructure through public–private partnerships today.

Key Takeaways

• The fine line between reality and expectation in output-based specifications.
• Cutting corners is a false economy, but owners and contractors can still explore feasible ways to save time and money.
• The real differences between collaborative and alliance versus P3 models.
• The conclusions to be drawn from examining the first wave of P3 and linear projects in Canada.
• The huge impact of having courage and character in this industry.

Quote

“I'm ​first ​and ​foremost a ​contracts ​person, ​and ​I ​love ​contracts ​and ​I ​believe ​in ​freedom ​of ​contract. Freedom ​of ​contract ​​means, ​at ​its ​heart, ​the ​freedom ​to ​make ​what ​might ​appear ​to ​others ​​to ​be ​a ​bad ​deal, right? ​So ​let ​me ​offer ​the ​three ​of ​you ​a ​deal. I'm ​going ​to ​pay ​you, ​I ​don't ​know, ​a ​thousand ​bucks ​a ​year. ​And ​if ​I ​get ​drunk ​and ​fall ​asleep ​smoking ​in ​my ​bed, ​you're ​going ​to ​build ​me ​a ​new ​house ​for ​a ​couple ​of ​million ​bucks, anybody ​want ​to ​sign ​that ​contract ​with ​me, right? ​You'd ​be ​crazy ​to. ​That's ​a ​crazy ​contract, right? ​But ​my ​insurance ​company ​does ​that ​for ​me. ​They ​take ​that ​bet ​and ​they ​make ​a ​bucket ​of ​money ​doing ​it. Maybe ​not ​these ​days, ​but, ​you ​know, ​traditionally, ​that's ​a ​contract ​that ​looks ​ridiculous ​on ​its ​face, and ​yet ​it ​works.” - Rob Pattison

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Public–private partnerships (P3s) have long been used as a tool for delivering complex infrastructure projects in Canada, but the landscape is changing. In this episode, Riccardo and his panel of experts explore how P3s have evolved and what that means for today’s projects, funding models, and risk-sharing dynamics.

In this two-part series, Emily Moore (University of Toronto), Pouya Zangeneh (University of Calgary), and Rob Pattison (Rob Pattison Consulting) bring industry, academic, and legal perspectives to the conversation. Together, they unpack how shifting risk appetites, funding structures, and partner roles are reshaping both the potential and the challenges of using P3s.

From the financial nuances of availability versus revenue deals to the often-overlooked behavioural impacts of changing equity stakes, this discussion offers timely insights for anyone curious about what makes these partnerships succeed or fail.

Key Takeaways

• How project decisions, such as the approach to liquidated damages, change based on whether a project is privately or publicly funded.
• The various dynamics and incentives in revenue deals and availability deals.
• How equity plays into the outcomes of P3 projects, both beneficially and detrimentally.
• How misaligned motivations, externally or internally, can complicate or even derail a project.
• The history and practice of honourariums and bid fees during project bidding.

Quote

“Any ​contractor ​that ​they're ​going ​to ​hire ​is completely ​independent. ​They're ​a ​third ​party. ​And ​so ​if ​to ​protect ​your ​equity ​as ​the ​owner ​and ​if ​to ​protect ​the ​business, ​you've ​got ​to ​bankrupt ​your ​contractor, ​well, ​you ​know, ​you ​won't ​have ​qualms ​about ​that. ​I ​mean, ​other ​than ​as ​a ​sort ​of ​human ​being ​walking ​around ​on ​this ​planet. ​But ​from ​a ​financial ​perspective, ​you ​won't ​have ​any ​qualms ​about ​that ​because ​your ​only ​relationship ​is ​that ​contract ​and ​you've ​got ​securities ​and ​you've ​got ​this ​and ​that ​and ​you've ​got ​the ​other ​thing. ​And ​the ​interesting ​thing ​in ​a ​P3 ​is ​if ​everybody ​in ​that ​family ​has ​their ​own ​P ​and ​L ​and ​if ​they ​take ​it ​to ​the ​logical ​extension, ​and ​Ricardo, ​you'll ​correct ​me, ​but ​if ​you're ​a ​public ​company, every ​officer ​of ​that ​company ​who's ​got ​a ​P ​and ​L ​has ​a ​fiduciary ​duty ​to ​deliver ​for ​the ​public ​company. ​And ​well, ​my ​responsibility ​is ​my ​P ​and ​L. ​And ​if ​protecting ​my ​P ​and ​L ​means ​bankrupting ​another ​division, ​actually ​that's ​what ​I ​got ​to ​do ​unless ​the ​board ​wants ​to ​overrule ​me.” - Rob Pattison

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Welcome to Uncharted Conversations, a new Navigating Major Programmes series designed to disrupt industry thinking one unscripted conversation at a time. In each episode, the panelists bring their diverse perspectives to the table as self-dubbed industry pirates, adopting a mercenary approach to calling out industry challenges. Up first: collaborative contracts.

David Ho is the National Leader of Healthcare and Buildings for Accenture. Melissa Di Marco is a Partner and specialist in Project Advisory and Disputes at Accuracy. Shormila Chatterjee is the Vice President of EY. Together, these experienced programme professionals discuss the complexities of collaborative contracting in the infrastructure sector, including often-seen core competency shortcomings and the importance of empowering the right decision makers.

Too often, collaboration is misconstrued as the project goal when it is, in fact, merely one possible vehicle. This conversation delves into market participation, trust issues and risk allocation, and why technical skill shouldn’t top the recruitment checklist. Decision-making, competency, and governance are painstakingly dissected in this no-holds-barred discussion that highlights the problems not with collaborative contracts themselves but with the assumption that choosing this model will fix all the problems. Join these leaders as they explore why the infrastructure industry might be ready for a seismic systemic shift.

Takeaways:

• Why every organization’s first question should be whether they have the skills to manage a collaborative contract.
• The dangers of assuming a collaborative contract will automatically be easier and mitigate risk.
• The need for a strong collection of capable people around the table for any programme model to succeed.
• How systems and governance can be structured with empowerment in mind.
• The soft skills that are essential, and more important than technical experience, for true collaboration.

Quote:

“The idea ​will ​be ​to enter ​into ​a ​process ​with ​a ​winning ​counterparty. ​We ​can ​call ​them ​whatever ​we ​want, ​development ​partner, ​whatever ​it ​might ​be. But ​that ​period ​of ​dialogue ​and ​iteration,​ ​if ​it ​is ​prescribed ​by ​an ​even ​more ​detailed ​rulebook, in ​my ​mind, ​it ​doesn't ​matter ​if ​the ​end ​of ​that ​rulebook ​still ​doesn't ​have ​a ​fixed ​price. ​All ​you're ​doing ​is ​layering ​on ​a ​set ​of ​rules ​that ​is ​now ​a ​wholly ​dependent ​upon ​the ​behavioural ​interpretations ​of ​the ​people ​playing ​the ​game. ​And ​if ​the ​behavioural ​interpretation ​is, ​I'm ​going ​to ​use ​the ​rules ​to ​my ​advantage ​to ​exploit ​your ​bad ​writing ​of ​the ​rules, ​or ​I'm ​going ​to ​use ​the ​rules ​to ​my ​advantage ​to ​compel ​you ​to ​obey ​no ​matter ​what. ​Then ​forget ​it. ​It's ​not ​collaborative. ​It ​is ​just ​a ​more ​involved ​rule ​book ​​for ​less ​certainty ​of ​outcome.” - David Ho

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