Ever been asked “So… are you more brand or demand?” and felt your soul leave your body? Same. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Smita Gupta to blow up that false choice and dig into what she calls the two-speed CMO – the marketer who can deliver this quarter and build compounding growth for next year.
We get into why “brand vs demand” is the wrong question, how to stop marketing becoming a glorified service desk for sales and what it really looks like to run your function like an investment portfolio, balancing pipeline now, conversion improvement and future demand creation.
Smita shares the dashboards, metrics and language that actually land with CEOs, CFOs and CROs, plus how to position marketing as a growth engine, not a cost centre.
When it comes to demand and brand, as Smita puts it “If you only do one, you either look busy or look brilliant. Neither guarantees revenue.”
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, we’re diving deep into one of marketing’s most hotly debated topics: how to balance brand investment with the constant pressure to deliver more leads. I’m joined by the fabulous Corin Camenisch, who’s built her career across product, brand, and growth, making her the perfect guide through the chaos.
We get into what really happens when your performance engine starts to plateau, how to structure brand experiments that prove value fast and the early signals that show your brand work is actually shifting the needle (long before revenue hits). We talk creative that truly lifts, internal storytelling, mapping your internal “audiences” and how to pitch brand in a language your CFO will actually understand.
And Corin sums up the heart of the episode beautifully when she says:
“Instead of being like ‘I want a big brand awareness campaign’, it’s better to say: why don’t we run an experiment to help decrease your CAC… that’s when people start to listen.”
If you’re a marketing leader trying to defend brand budget and make your performance engine more efficient, this episode is packed with firepower.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Sales and marketing - same team, right? So why do so many companies still treat them like distant cousins who only talk at family reunions? In this episode of CMO Therapy, I chat with Michael Treacy, Director of Marketing and Business Development at OpenPayd, about the art (and occasional chaos) of getting sales and marketing truly aligned.
We dig into why alignment isn’t just about passing leads over the fence, but about shared goals, mutual trust and actually speaking the same customer language.
Michael puts it perfectly: “The moment you hand over that MQL and say, ‘my job’s done,’ that’s when it all starts falling down.”
From practical ways to tighten collaboration, to how AI tools like Gong are transforming the feedback loop between teams, this one’s a must-listen for any marketing leader tired of the sales vs. marketing tug-of-war.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

What happens when everyone in your company suddenly becomes a marketer?

In this episode of CMO Therapy Lucy chats with Sam Schrager, CMO at BCB Group, about what it really takes to keep the engine running when every department, from HR to Product to the CEO’s office, has “just one little idea.”

Sam opens up about the chaos of juggling endless requests, managing expectations and keeping marketing strategic (not just reactive). We dive into how she’s learned to push back with confidence, educate the business on what marketing really does and build trust across teams… all while keeping the energy alive.

“I’ve got tougher over the last six months. I’m not afraid to push back and ask why are we doing this? What’s the actual objective?”

If you’ve ever felt like the office dumping ground for ideas, this one’s your therapy session.

Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Think your content and campaigns are strong? Think again. Because if you’re not nailing distribution, they’re probably falling short.
In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with Yoann Pavy, CMO at AI Apply, to unpack the hardest, most under-discussed part of marketing - distribution. Inspired by that killer quote, “A bad product with great distribution makes money. A great product with no distribution dies quietly,” this conversation dives deep into why distribution is now the ultimate growth advantage.
Yoann explains how social platforms like TikTok have flipped the playbook, where every post is its own campaign and why marketers need to think distribution first if they want real results. Expect spicy takes, practical advice and a few reality checks for any marketing leader still obsessing over ideas instead of reach.
As Yoann says: “The idea is already there - you just have to look, copy what works and execute.”

Closing a deal isn’t about one superstar channel swooping in to save the day - it really does take a village. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Vanessa Schotes, CMO at Enfuce to talk about why the endless “sales vs. marketing vs. partnerships” debate is holding so many companies back.
We dig into the reality that no single GTM channel works in isolation. Instead of playing the blame game (“Was this lead marketing’s? Or sales’?”), high-performing teams are figuring out how to orchestrate all their channels together for maximum impact. Of course, that’s easier said than done, especially when attribution models pit teams against each other and brand-building (which is critical for long-term growth) gets undervalued because it’s harder to tie directly to leads.
If you’ve ever wrestled with attribution headaches, budget fights, or proving the ROI of brand, you’ll want to tune in. This one’s packed with insights you can put into practice straight awayMusic clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever looked at your marketing tech stack and thought, “How the hell did it get this bad?” You’re not alone. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant (and brutally honest) Oren Greenberg to unpack why so many marketing leaders end up drowning in tools, silos and false promises.
We dig into:
- Why so many stacks turn into a Frankenstein monster of overlapping tools
- The cultural pressures that drive quick fixes over strategic thinking
- How to spot when a tool is actually adding value vs. just adding noise
- Why integration is less about APIs and more about asking “what data do I really need?”
- And the CFO-style mindset every CMO needs when deciding where to invest.
I loved it when Oren said “Are you trying to build something for average? Or are you trying to build something that’s right for your business in your context?”
This one’s a must-listen for any senior marketer ready to tame the chaos and take back control.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

The world of marketing has shifted and one of the biggest changes we’ve seen is the rise of the fractional CMO. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Lucy Woolfenden to dig into why so many senior marketers are choosing this path and why more companies are embracing it.
We chat about what’s driving the boom (hello, unpredictable economy!), the real value fractional CMOs bring and those crucial moments when bringing in flexible senior leadership makes more sense than hiring full-time. Lucy shares her own experiences from the frontlines, giving us a clear-eyed look at what works, what doesn’t and how businesses can get the best from a fractional leader.
As Lucy puts it, “Too many businesses hire a full-time CMO when what they really need is focus, speed and expertise on tap. That’s the beauty of fractional.”
Trust me, if you’ve ever wondered whether “fractional” could work for you, this one’s a must-listen.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence