Ever been asked “So… are you more brand or demand?” and felt your soul leave your body? Same. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Smita Gupta to blow up that false choice and dig into what she calls the two-speed CMO – the marketer who can deliver this quarter and build compounding growth for next year.
We get into why “brand vs demand” is the wrong question, how to stop marketing becoming a glorified service desk for sales and what it really looks like to run your function like an investment portfolio, balancing pipeline now, conversion improvement and future demand creation.
Smita shares the dashboards, metrics and language that actually land with CEOs, CFOs and CROs, plus how to position marketing as a growth engine, not a cost centre.
When it comes to demand and brand, as Smita puts it “If you only do one, you either look busy or look brilliant. Neither guarantees revenue.”
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, we’re diving deep into one of marketing’s most hotly debated topics: how to balance brand investment with the constant pressure to deliver more leads. I’m joined by the fabulous Corin Camenisch, who’s built her career across product, brand, and growth, making her the perfect guide through the chaos.
We get into what really happens when your performance engine starts to plateau, how to structure brand experiments that prove value fast and the early signals that show your brand work is actually shifting the needle (long before revenue hits). We talk creative that truly lifts, internal storytelling, mapping your internal “audiences” and how to pitch brand in a language your CFO will actually understand.
And Corin sums up the heart of the episode beautifully when she says:
“Instead of being like ‘I want a big brand awareness campaign’, it’s better to say: why don’t we run an experiment to help decrease your CAC… that’s when people start to listen.”
If you’re a marketing leader trying to defend brand budget and make your performance engine more efficient, this episode is packed with firepower.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Sales and marketing - same team, right? So why do so many companies still treat them like distant cousins who only talk at family reunions? In this episode of CMO Therapy, I chat with Michael Treacy, Director of Marketing and Business Development at OpenPayd, about the art (and occasional chaos) of getting sales and marketing truly aligned.
We dig into why alignment isn’t just about passing leads over the fence, but about shared goals, mutual trust and actually speaking the same customer language.
Michael puts it perfectly: “The moment you hand over that MQL and say, ‘my job’s done,’ that’s when it all starts falling down.”
From practical ways to tighten collaboration, to how AI tools like Gong are transforming the feedback loop between teams, this one’s a must-listen for any marketing leader tired of the sales vs. marketing tug-of-war.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence