In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with expert marketing leader and Brand & Marketing Director at Zego, Ingrid Sierra, to unpack one of the toughest challenges in B2B marketing: what really happens after the contract is signed.
Because let’s be honest… once the high-fives fade and onboarding is done, most customers aren’t thinking about you at all.
So why is retention so hard, especially in industries where interaction is low and pricing often wins the deal? And why won’t loyalty schemes and “just checking in” emails save you?
Lucy and Ingrid dive into the messy middle between onboarding and renewal, from NPS drop-offs and usage gaps to gamification, trust-building and showing up in the moments that actually matter.
As Ingrid puts it: “If they choose you because of pricing, you need to make sure that at renewal they actually choose you for the right reasons.”
If you care about churn, growth and earning the right to show up when there’s no obvious reason to, you'll love this episode.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

What does it really take for a 160-year-old brand to stay relevant in a world obsessed with shiny new fintechs, challenger banks and AI-powered everything?
In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Joe Goldberg, Head of Brand Strategy at Santander UK, for a no-fluff, deeply human conversation about how legacy brands evolve without losing their soul.
We dig into why modern banking isn’t about shouting “we’re digital” - it’s about designing emotional experiences that make people feel confident, included and in control of their money. Joe unpacks the real battle for salience in an AI-driven future, why most brands misunderstand loyalty and how trust, tone and honesty matter more than ever when your product is invisible.
There’s also a brilliant deep dive into experiential brand design, the role of fame (hello Ant & Dec), and why anxiety (not apathy) is the real enemy of modern financial services.
As Joe puts it:
“If you’re not salient, if people don’t know you exist, you’re dead.”
If you’re a CMO navigating growth, relevance and emotional connection in a complex category… this one’s unmissable.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Paul Taylor who held senior marketing leadership roles at firms like Swift and SS&C, to unpack one of the most misunderstood (and under-invested) growth levers in B2B: customer advocacy.
We get brutally honest about why advocacy so often gets reduced to logo slides, rushed case studies and last-minute favours for sales and why that mindset is costing marketing teams serious pipeline. Paul shares a much smarter way to think about advocacy, as a flywheel, not a campaign. When it's built on trust and peer-to-peer influence, customers will be talking about you when you’re not in the room. Love that!
We dig into how to design advocacy that feels human (not needy - we've all been there), how to spot real advocates hiding in plain sight, how to scale it without killing authenticity and how CMOs can actually measure impact beyond vanity metrics.
As Paul puts it:
“Good advocacy isn’t PR. It’s insurance for your brand in a world where trust is collapsing.”
If you want advocacy to drive growth, not just decorate your website, this one’s a must-listen.
Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence