What if the most powerful leadership development program in America isn’t at Harvard or McKinsey — but has been operating in Black churches for centuries?

L. Michelle Smith — award-winning author, Fortune 100 C-suite advisor, ICF certified executive coach, and CEO of No Silos Communications — joins Leilani to make the case that the Black church is the most overlooked leadership incubator in this country. Her new book, Call and Response: 10 Leadership Lessons from the Black Church, draws on cultural history, applied neuroscience, and positive psychology to show how the skills forged in that experience — communication, resilience, community building, and purpose — are exactly what today’s leaders need. And these lessons aren’t just for Black people or churchgoers. They’re for anyone who wants to lead with more empathy and more power.

In this episode:

— The AT&T keynote that generated 25 million impressions and launched the question: “Where did you learn to speak like that?”

— Why emotional intelligence — not communication — is the least obvious leadership lesson from the church

— How online church became “like Bumble” and what that reveals about workplace communication breakdowns

— The science of hope theory: why hopeful people are better planners, goal setters, and strategists

— What it means to create “safe soil” for emerging leaders — and why ropes courses won’t cut it

— Why young people are the most important — and least obvious — audience for this book

— Plus, a surprise appearance from Rev Run that ties the whole origin story together

About L. Michelle Smith: L. Michelle Smith is an award-winning author, Fortune 100 C-suite advisor, ICF certified executive coach, and CEO and founder of No Silos Communications. She is the executive producer and host of the Culture Soup Podcast, a contributor to HuffPost Voices, and her work has been featured in Fast Company, Forbes, and Black Enterprise. She has spoken on stages including South by Southwest and the Essence Festival. Her new book Call and Response: 10 Leadership Lessons from the Black Church is available now.

Find L. Michelle: LMichelleSmith.com | Instagram | LinkedIn | Threads

Giant Steps is a production of Giant Steps LLC, a company working at the intersection of strategy, culture, career, and education.

Learn more at GiantStepsLLC.com.

Tags/Keywords: leadership, leadership development, Black church, call and response, leadership incubator, positive psychology, hope theory, neuroscience, emotional intelligence, executive coaching, Gen Z, workplace communication, community building, resilience, L. Michelle Smith, Black leadership

Episode Title: If People Weren’t Paid, Would They Follow You? (A Leadership Wake-Up Call)

What actually motivates people to follow a leader — beyond a paycheck?What happens when belief, trust, and clarity matter more than compensation?And how do leaders need to evolve as work, talent, and expectations continue to change?

In this episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown, Leilani sits down with Jocelyn Lincoln, a transformational marketing and talent leader, for a candid conversation about leadership, growth, and the human side of work. Jocelyn shares her career journey — from her first job in financial services to executive leadership roles across staffing and healthcare — and the lessons she’s learned along the way about people, purpose, and performance.

Drawing on her experience as a Fractional CMO and executive advisor, Jocelyn unpacks how the workforce has evolved, including the rise of flexible and contingent work, the impact of automation and AI, and the growing talent shortages reshaping industries like healthcare. She also reflects on her experience leading a political campaign, where motivating volunteers offered a powerful lesson in leadership without pay — and why belief may be one of the most underestimated leadership tools.

Together, Leilani and Jocelyn explore what it really takes to lead in today’s environment — and why growth, at every level, ultimately comes down to people.

Whether you’re a leader, manager, or professional navigating change — or questioning whether your leadership would hold without a paycheck — this episode offers perspective, clarity, and a much-needed leadership reset.

• What it means to lead when money isn’t the motivator

• Why belief, trust, and clarity are essential leadership tools

• How flexible and contingent work has reshaped careers

• The impact of AI and automation on today’s workforce

• What healthcare talent shortages reveal about leadership gaps

• Why defining your personal value proposition matters

• Lessons from leading volunteer workforces and political campaigns

Jocelyn Lincoln

Jocelyn Lincoln is a Fractional CMO with Chief Outsiders and a transformational marketing and talent leader with more than two decades of experience across staffing, healthcare, and growth strategy. She works with CEOs and leadership teams to drive growth through clarity, alignment, and execution, helping organizations rethink how they attract, retain, and lead talent in a rapidly changing workforce.

Leilani BrownWebsite → https://giantstepsllc.comInstagram → @giantstepsllc

Jocelyn LincolnLinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynlincoln/ Website / Chief Outsiders → https://www.chiefoutsiders.com/

🎁 Free guide: Your Next Giant Reset™ — a step-by-step resource for navigating loss, layoffs, and planning your comeback.👉 Download it here: https://resetguide.giantstepsllc.com/#page=1

📚 More free resources & writing:Read the Giant Steps blog and download additional resources on Substack →👉 https://giantstepsllc.substack.com/

#GiantSteps #Leadership #FutureOfWork #WorkforceStrategy #TalentLeadership #CareerGrowth #AI #CareerTransitions

What does leadership demand in moments of national reflection? How should service, responsibility, and moral courage guide those preparing to lead? And what does Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s legacy ask of us today?

This episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown is different.

What you’re about to hear is a formal address Leilani delivered at The Citadel, one of the nation’s six senior military colleges and home to the South Carolina Corps of Cadets — where leadership training and a commitment to service are central to the institution’s mission.

Titled “Dr. King’s Legacy: Beyond Nonviolence,” this speech was delivered on the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday last year, which also coincided with Inauguration Day — making it a powerful moment for reflection on values, responsibility, and moral leadership.

This episode is publishing on January 15, Martin Luther King Jr.’s actual birthday, and felt like the right moment to share these words in his honor.

In this address, Leilani reflects on:

• Dr. King’s enduring moral legacy

• What leadership requires beyond titles and positions

• The responsibility that comes with education, service, and power

• Why integrity, courage, and action still matter

• The timeless call to do what is right — even when it is difficult

Please note: this episode is audio-only, as there is no video from the original event — but you can listen to the full address here on YouTube.

Leilani closes with Dr. King’s reminder:

“The time is always right to do what is right.”

🎧 Listen now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Audible, and iHeartRadio.
👉 Subscribe for more reflections and conversations that explore leadership, work, and growth with clarity and purpose.

Each week, Leilani Brown — author, career coach, and founder of Giant Steps LLC — explores the human side of work, leadership, and growth. Through conversations and reflections, the show helps listeners navigate change, build resilience, and lead with intention.

About the Show — Giant Steps with Leilani Brown

Each week, Leilani Brown — author, career coach, and founder of Giant Steps LLC — explores the human side of work, leadership, and growth. Through conversations with experts, innovators, and thought leaders, the show helps listeners navigate transitions, build resilience, and lead with purpose in a rapidly changing world.

What career advice is actually worth listening to — and what should you ignore?

In this episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown, we switch things up and kick off the conversation with a rapid-fire career game. Jirah puts Leilani in the hot seat, firing off a mix of open-ended and “this or that” questions — no overthinking allowed.

As Leilani answers on the spot, she shares her most honest, practical, and experience-backed advice on careers, success, and navigating the workplace. From defining your own version of success to choosing flexibility over rigid career paths, each question unlocks a lesson that cuts through common career myths and overused advice.

The fast-paced format keeps the conversation candid, insightful, and engaging, while revealing how instinct, self-trust, and adaptability play a major role in building a career that lasts.

Whether you’re early in your career, navigating a pivot, or rethinking your next move, this episode delivers clear, grounded guidance without the fluff.

If you’re tired of vague advice and ready for real perspective, this episode is for you.

• The best career advice Leilani has ever received — and why it still matters

• Structured career paths vs. creating your own

• How to make smarter career decisions without overcomplicating them

• Which popular career advice is overrated — and what actually works

• Lessons learned from real experience, not theory

• Why trusting your instincts is a skill you can strengthen over time

Leilani Brown — Author, career coach, and founder of Giant Steps LLC.Leilani helps professionals navigate transitions, build resilience, and make intentional career decisions in a rapidly changing world.

Leilani Brown / Giant Steps LLC🌐 Website → https://giantstepsllc.com📷 Instagram → @giantstepsllc

🎁 Free Resource: The Giant Steps Year-End Reset Guide™ — a guided workbook to help you reflect on your year, clarify what matters most, and set intentional goals for what’s next.👉 Download it at giantstepsllc.com👉 https://resetguide.giantstepsllc.com/

Each week, Giant Steps with Leilani Brown explores the human side of work, leadership, and growth. Through candid conversations and practical insights, the show helps listeners navigate career transitions, build confidence, and move forward with purpose.

✨ If this episode resonated, please like, comment, and share.📩 Join the community → https://giantstepsllc.com/contact📚 Explore Leilani’s books → https://giantstepsllc.com/books🌐 Learn more → https://giantstepsllc.com

#GiantSteps #CareerAdvice #Reinvention #CareerGrowth #NewYearReset #IntentionalLiving #ProfessionalDevelopment

When trust breaks down at work, how do teams communicate when communication no longer feels safe? How do leaders rebuild confidence, clarity, and connection in a constantly shifting workplace?

In this episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown, Leilani sits down with Minda Harts, bestselling author, workplace consultant, and keynote speaker, to explore how to create workplaces where people feel seen, supported, and respected. Minda shares her groundbreaking Seven Trust Languages® framework, a practical approach to rebuilding communication, restoring belonging, and fostering trust in teams and organizations.

Whether you’re a leader trying to build a healthier, more human workplace or an employee navigating environments where you feel unheard, this conversation provides actionable strategies to strengthen trust, communication, and collaboration.

In This Episode:

• Why trust is collapsing inside organizations and how to rebuild it

• The Seven Trust Languages® and how they transform workplace communication

• Common misconceptions leaders have about trust, safety, and belonging

• How employees can advocate for themselves when they feel overlooked

• Small, daily behaviors that determine whether a team thrives or falls apart

• Insights from Minda’s own career journey, from executive assistant to bestselling author, consultant, and filmmaker

Guest Minda Harts – Minda Harts is a bestselling author, workplace consultant, and sought-after keynote speaker who is revolutionizing how organizations build trust. Through her groundbreaking Seven Trust Languages® framework, she helps leaders and teams create cultures where trust becomes their greatest competitive advantage.

As the author of The Memo, Right Within, You Are More Than Magic, and her latest Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace, Minda has empowered thousands to build stronger workplace relationships and navigate professional challenges with confidence.Her impact spans boardrooms and conference stages worldwide, with companies like Nike, Google, Best Buy, and Zoom calling on her to drive meaningful change through trust-building strategies.

She's been recognized by LinkedIn as the #1 Top Voice in the Workplace and by Business Insider as one of the top 100 People Transforming Business. In addition to her speaking and consulting work, Minda is shaping future leaders as an NYU assistant professor and founder of The Memo LLC. When organizations want to transform their communication through trust, they call Minda Harts.

💬 Connect Leilani Brown Website → giantstepsllc.com Instagram → @giantstepsllc

Minda Harts Website → mindaharts.com LinkedIn → linkedin.com/in/mindaharts Instagram → @mindaharts YouTube → Official Minda Harts

Resources
🎁 Free guide: Your Next Giant Reset™ — a step-by-step resource for navigating loss and layoffs and planning your comeback. 👉 Download it at https://resetguide.giantstepsllc.com/#page=1

When everything you’ve built—your career, your business, your personal life—suddenly falls apart, how do you begin again?

In this episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown, Leilani sits down with Sabena Miller, corporate training consultant, instructional designer, and entrepreneur, to explore how to rebuild and reinvent your life after profound loss.

Sabena shares her approach to resilience and reinvention—a method built through real-life experiences of career disruption, personal tragedy, and business collapse. Together, they discuss how to rise stronger when everything seems lost, how to transform grief and uncertainty into growth, and how to rebuild confidence and purpose along the way.

Whether you’ve experienced a major personal or professional setback, or simply want to strengthen your ability to navigate life’s unexpected challenges, this conversation will help you see that reinvention is not just possible—it’s an opportunity to create a more empowered, purpose-driven future.

In This Episode:

• Sabena’s journey from the trading floors of the New York Stock Exchange to running her own business

• The personal and professional losses that shaped her resilience

• How to turn grief, uncertainty, and disruption into catalysts for growth

• Practical strategies for rebuilding your career, business, and personal life

• Mindset shifts and habits that help you move forward when everything feels lost

Sabena Miller – Sabena Miller is a leadership consultant, speaker, and founder of KairosXP™, where she helps teams and organizations strengthen communication, build trust, and elevate performance. Known for her practical, energizing style, Sabena teaches leaders how to break down silos, improve cross-department collaboration, and create workplaces where people thrive. With consulting experience across construction, financial services, telecom, beauty, healthcare, and more, she brings real-world insight to every stage or workshop. Sabena also leads corporate training projects as a curriculum architect and creative consultant, designing experiences that empower teams to learn and lead with clarity.

Leilani Brown Website → giantstepsllc.com Instagram → @giantstepsllc

Sabena Miller Website → www.KairosXP.com LinkedIn → Sabena Miller Instagram → @Kairos.xp

Guest💬 ConnectResources🎁 Free guide: Your Next Giant Reset™ — a step-by-step resource for navigating loss and layoffs and planning your comeback. 👉 Download it at https://resetguide.giantstepsllc.com/#page=1

Facing job loss is stressful — emotionally, professionally, and financially. In this episode, Leilani Brown talks with Mike Daniels, CFP®, ChFC®, RICP®, about how to approach career transitions with clarity and confidence. From understanding your cash flow and applying for unemployment to managing retirement accounts and planning Social Security, Mike provides practical steps to stabilize your finances and protect your long-term future.

In This Episode:

• How to evaluate household finances after a job loss

• Applying for unemployment benefits and understanding COBRA vs. ACA health insurance

• Handling retirement accounts strategically: 401(k), 403(b), TSP, pensions

• The Rule of Fifty-Five for penalty-free withdrawals for employees 50+

• Social Security insights and claiming strategies

• Managing debt and cash flow during career transitions

• Key financial habits and resources to build long-term resilience
  

Guest: Mike Daniels, CFP®, ChFC®, RICP® — Senior Financial Advisor at Financial Focus Group, specializing in retirement planning, risk management, tax strategies, and wealth preservation.

💬 Connect with Mike Daniels:

• YouTube → Mike Daniels CFP

• LinkedIn → Michael V. Daniels

• Email / Phone → Available for personal consultation

Resources: 🎁 Free guide: Your Next Giant Reset™ — a step-by-step guide to navigating layoffs and career transitions. 👉 Download at giantstepsllc.com

When everything you’ve built suddenly feels uncertain — how do you begin again?

In this episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown, Leilani sits down with Rachel Tully, founder of Still Human and former leader at Tesla, Venmo, Ford, and the SEC, to explore how to reinvent your career after disruption.

Rachel shares her signature “Boa Constrictor Approach” — a strategy for identifying, surrounding, and seizing new opportunities with precision and purpose. Together, they discuss how to turn career crises into catalysts for reinvention, how to stay relevant in the age of AI, and how to rebuild confidence when your professional identity is shaken.

Whether you’ve been laid off, are rethinking your career path, or simply want to future-proof your skills, this conversation will help you clarify your unique value and move forward with focus, courage, and humanity.

• Rachel’s journey from Ford and Tesla to founding Still Human

• The “Boa Constrictor Approach” to career reinvention

• How to handle layoffs, pivots, and professional uncertainty

• Staying human in an AI-driven workplace

• Practical tools for resilience and reinvention

  
  

Rachel Tully – Founder of Still Human, a career strategy practice helping professionals navigate AI disruption and build future-proof careers. Before launching her business, Rachel held roles at Ford, Tesla, Venmo, and the SEC, and earned her MBA from NYU.

Leilani Brown Website → giantstepsllc.com Instagram → @giantstepsllc

Rachel Tully Website → https://www.linkedin.com/in/hiracheltully/ LinkedIn → Rachel Tully

🎁 Free guide: Your Next Giant Reset™ — a step-by-step resource for navigating layoffs and planning your comeback. 👉 Download it at giantstepsllc.com Tags

#CareerReinvention #GiantStepsPodcast #LeilaniBrown #RachelTully #FutureOfWork #AI #CareerResilience #Layoffs #ProfessionalGrowth #StillHuman