What if the most powerful leadership development program in America isn’t at Harvard or McKinsey — but has been operating in Black churches for centuries?

L. Michelle Smith — award-winning author, Fortune 100 C-suite advisor, ICF certified executive coach, and CEO of No Silos Communications — joins Leilani to make the case that the Black church is the most overlooked leadership incubator in this country. Her new book, Call and Response: 10 Leadership Lessons from the Black Church, draws on cultural history, applied neuroscience, and positive psychology to show how the skills forged in that experience — communication, resilience, community building, and purpose — are exactly what today’s leaders need. And these lessons aren’t just for Black people or churchgoers. They’re for anyone who wants to lead with more empathy and more power.

In this episode:

— The AT&T keynote that generated 25 million impressions and launched the question: “Where did you learn to speak like that?”

— Why emotional intelligence — not communication — is the least obvious leadership lesson from the church

— How online church became “like Bumble” and what that reveals about workplace communication breakdowns

— The science of hope theory: why hopeful people are better planners, goal setters, and strategists

— What it means to create “safe soil” for emerging leaders — and why ropes courses won’t cut it

— Why young people are the most important — and least obvious — audience for this book

— Plus, a surprise appearance from Rev Run that ties the whole origin story together

About L. Michelle Smith: L. Michelle Smith is an award-winning author, Fortune 100 C-suite advisor, ICF certified executive coach, and CEO and founder of No Silos Communications. She is the executive producer and host of the Culture Soup Podcast, a contributor to HuffPost Voices, and her work has been featured in Fast Company, Forbes, and Black Enterprise. She has spoken on stages including South by Southwest and the Essence Festival. Her new book Call and Response: 10 Leadership Lessons from the Black Church is available now.

Find L. Michelle: LMichelleSmith.com | Instagram | LinkedIn | Threads

Giant Steps is a production of Giant Steps LLC, a company working at the intersection of strategy, culture, career, and education.

Learn more at GiantStepsLLC.com.

Tags/Keywords: leadership, leadership development, Black church, call and response, leadership incubator, positive psychology, hope theory, neuroscience, emotional intelligence, executive coaching, Gen Z, workplace communication, community building, resilience, L. Michelle Smith, Black leadership

Episode Title: If People Weren’t Paid, Would They Follow You? (A Leadership Wake-Up Call)

What actually motivates people to follow a leader — beyond a paycheck?What happens when belief, trust, and clarity matter more than compensation?And how do leaders need to evolve as work, talent, and expectations continue to change?

In this episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown, Leilani sits down with Jocelyn Lincoln, a transformational marketing and talent leader, for a candid conversation about leadership, growth, and the human side of work. Jocelyn shares her career journey — from her first job in financial services to executive leadership roles across staffing and healthcare — and the lessons she’s learned along the way about people, purpose, and performance.

Drawing on her experience as a Fractional CMO and executive advisor, Jocelyn unpacks how the workforce has evolved, including the rise of flexible and contingent work, the impact of automation and AI, and the growing talent shortages reshaping industries like healthcare. She also reflects on her experience leading a political campaign, where motivating volunteers offered a powerful lesson in leadership without pay — and why belief may be one of the most underestimated leadership tools.

Together, Leilani and Jocelyn explore what it really takes to lead in today’s environment — and why growth, at every level, ultimately comes down to people.

Whether you’re a leader, manager, or professional navigating change — or questioning whether your leadership would hold without a paycheck — this episode offers perspective, clarity, and a much-needed leadership reset.

• What it means to lead when money isn’t the motivator

• Why belief, trust, and clarity are essential leadership tools

• How flexible and contingent work has reshaped careers

• The impact of AI and automation on today’s workforce

• What healthcare talent shortages reveal about leadership gaps

• Why defining your personal value proposition matters

• Lessons from leading volunteer workforces and political campaigns

Jocelyn Lincoln

Jocelyn Lincoln is a Fractional CMO with Chief Outsiders and a transformational marketing and talent leader with more than two decades of experience across staffing, healthcare, and growth strategy. She works with CEOs and leadership teams to drive growth through clarity, alignment, and execution, helping organizations rethink how they attract, retain, and lead talent in a rapidly changing workforce.

Leilani BrownWebsite → https://giantstepsllc.comInstagram → @giantstepsllc

Jocelyn LincolnLinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynlincoln/ Website / Chief Outsiders → https://www.chiefoutsiders.com/

🎁 Free guide: Your Next Giant Reset™ — a step-by-step resource for navigating loss, layoffs, and planning your comeback.👉 Download it here: https://resetguide.giantstepsllc.com/#page=1

📚 More free resources & writing:Read the Giant Steps blog and download additional resources on Substack →👉 https://giantstepsllc.substack.com/

#GiantSteps #Leadership #FutureOfWork #WorkforceStrategy #TalentLeadership #CareerGrowth #AI #CareerTransitions

What does leadership demand in moments of national reflection? How should service, responsibility, and moral courage guide those preparing to lead? And what does Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s legacy ask of us today?

This episode of Giant Steps with Leilani Brown is different.

What you’re about to hear is a formal address Leilani delivered at The Citadel, one of the nation’s six senior military colleges and home to the South Carolina Corps of Cadets — where leadership training and a commitment to service are central to the institution’s mission.

Titled “Dr. King’s Legacy: Beyond Nonviolence,” this speech was delivered on the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday last year, which also coincided with Inauguration Day — making it a powerful moment for reflection on values, responsibility, and moral leadership.

This episode is publishing on January 15, Martin Luther King Jr.’s actual birthday, and felt like the right moment to share these words in his honor.

In this address, Leilani reflects on:

• Dr. King’s enduring moral legacy

• What leadership requires beyond titles and positions

• The responsibility that comes with education, service, and power

• Why integrity, courage, and action still matter

• The timeless call to do what is right — even when it is difficult

Please note: this episode is audio-only, as there is no video from the original event — but you can listen to the full address here on YouTube.

Leilani closes with Dr. King’s reminder:

“The time is always right to do what is right.”

🎧 Listen now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Audible, and iHeartRadio.
👉 Subscribe for more reflections and conversations that explore leadership, work, and growth with clarity and purpose.

Each week, Leilani Brown — author, career coach, and founder of Giant Steps LLC — explores the human side of work, leadership, and growth. Through conversations and reflections, the show helps listeners navigate change, build resilience, and lead with intention.

About the Show — Giant Steps with Leilani Brown

Each week, Leilani Brown — author, career coach, and founder of Giant Steps LLC — explores the human side of work, leadership, and growth. Through conversations with experts, innovators, and thought leaders, the show helps listeners navigate transitions, build resilience, and lead with purpose in a rapidly changing world.