This isn’t an attack on the supernatural. It’s a call to integrity, accountability, and making sure what we call freedom actually looks like Jesus. Deliverance is real. And so is the damage that happens when zeal outruns discernment. In this Sponsors Only conversation, Brandon and Lindsy talk with Dr. Merrill Greene about “exorcistic abuse,” the history behind exorcism language, why “unclean spirits” mattered in the Second Temple world, and how fake manifestations, celebrity culture, and bad theology can wreck vulnerable people.

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Timestamps:

00:00:48 Brandon frames the episode redemptively not anti supernatural

00:03:02 Why Merrill started writing The Cost of Casting Out

00:04:10 A sham deliverance meeting eyes flashing and peer pressure

00:06:10 Leg lengthening and the danger of staged miracles

00:07:39 The Winger /Bolz /Bethel tension and how discernment gets weaponized

00:08:50 Deliverance vs exorcism why Protestants changed the language

00:10:55 Brief history of exorcism from ancient world to early church

00:13:20 Divine council worldview and territorial powers without obsession

00:16:37 Unclean spirits vs demons Second Temple context and 1 Enoch thread

00:18:44 What exorcistic abuse looks like in real cases

00:23:25 When people mean well but bad theology turns lethal

00:25:47 Accountability without becoming a heresy hustle culture

00:28:04 Fake manifestations Munchausen dynamics and ministry incentives

00:30:23 Zoom deliverance social pressure and manufactured demons

00:32:41 Theology has consequences why what you believe shapes what you do

00:34:58 Practical markers character accountability and fruit not theatrics

00:37:20 Covering concerns disciple making movements and lone wolf danger

00:39:48 How common is real possession and why proof matters

00:42:02 Celebrity church culture performance pressure and entertainment

00:46:44 Ignorance training gaps and trauma created by careless labels

00:49:02 Character integrity humility and community as a safeguard

00:56:09 Charismatic realism wanting the real without the spectacle

00:58:20 Closing word and why this matters for judgment and witness

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Misery has a way of forcing honest questions.

In this episode, Brandon sits down with Jennifer Johnson who has spent decades helping people move beyond information about God and into real, embodied transformation. This conversation explores heart physics, biblical meditation, imagination, and why so many believers know Scripture—but can’t seem to live free.

What happens when the Word moves from the mind into the heart?
What if healing isn’t about trying harder, fixing yourself, or perfect behavior—but learning to trust again?

This episode unpacks why religious systems often fear inner freedom, how imagination was designed to work, and why your response to pain determines the outcome of your story. The conversation culminates in a live guided biblical meditation that invites listeners into direct awareness of Christ within.

This is not self-help.
This is not technique-driven spirituality.
This is an invitation to closeness.

https://paperbell.me/jenniferjohnson-coach
https://joinapp.unrefinedpodcast.com

Timestamps:
00:00:51 Introducing heart physics and biblical meditation
00:03:02 Growing up Christian and discovering something was missing
00:05:24 How How to Stop the Pain reframed suffering
00:07:45 Heart physics and the parable of the sower
00:12:23 Why information alone never produces fruit
00:16:52 Meditation, imagination, and reclaiming what religion feared
00:21:37 Sanctified imagination versus misuse
00:28:43 Christ in you awareness not self-fixing
00:30:59 The moment Jesus said “I chose you”
00:33:10 Why experience changes everything
00:34:47 Guided biblical meditation begins
00:41:56 Trusting Jesus as an invitation not a demand
00:45:06 Final reflection and closing

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There are “good causes” that can still be carrying a bad spirit, and some of the cleanest-looking institutions in public can hide the dirtiest mechanics underneath. In this one, we talk about how the mask works, why symbolism matters, and why discernment has to be more than vibes. We keep it anchored: Jesus is the way, not a ladder system, not an oath system, not a mystery religion with Christian paint on it — Amy from Eyes on the Right.

Timestamps

00:00:07 The veil that hides what groups really are
00:00:25 Unrefined intro and sponsor shoutout
00:00:48 Amy’s testimony and why it points back to Jesus
00:03:08 Sobriety and “no longer lukewarm” devotion
00:05:29 Secret societies as “same gift different wrapping paper”
00:07:51 Knights Templar links and the public “good guy” image
00:10:14 What lower-level Masons know and don’t know
00:12:31 Revelation of the method and “game” dynamics