Government hearings. Whistleblowers. UFO disclosure. Alien claims. Christians calling everything demonic.

But what if the real answer is far more complicated?

Dr. Jonathan Kendall joins Brandon to explore the growing evidence surrounding UFOs and UAPs while challenging the simplistic explanations often offered from every side of the debate.

Together they discuss government evidence, consciousness, high strangeness, extradimensional realities, ancient encounters, quantum physics, biblical worldview, and why the phenomenon may force us to rethink how we understand reality itself.

Rather than choosing between "aliens" or "demons," this conversation asks whether we've been asking the wrong questions all along.

Amazon - New Book

https://x.com/JKendallMD
https://jonathankendallmd.com/

Timestamps:
00:28 Introduction and welcome back Dr. Jonathan Kendall

02:41 Jonathan's lifelong interest in UFOs and the paranormal

03:56 His grandfather's mysterious West Virginia UFO encounter

05:27 Has Jonathan ever had a UFO experience himself?

07:20 What convinced him UFOs are a real phenomenon?

09:55 Project Blue Book and the overwhelming evidence

13:31 The strongest evidence for UAPs today

15:37 Government secrecy, disclosure, and finding the truth

17:08 Are we actually moving toward disclosure?

19:14 Extraterrestrial vs. extradimensional vs. spiritual explanations

21:02 Beyond Cartesian dualism: a new way of understanding reality

23:08 The case for the extraterrestrial hypothesis

25:04 Why Jonathan ultimately leans toward the extradimensional view

27:20 Separating genuine encounters from misidentifications

29:28 Super Psi, consciousness, and paranormal experiences

31:49 Why reality isn't simply "either/or"

32:47 Are aliens really demons?

34:37 Logic, conspiracies, and the danger of flattening reality

36:58 Jacques Vallée, Diana Pasulka, and Christian perspectives

39:14 What Jonathan hopes readers take away from his book

40:41 Jinn, fairies, folklore, and ancient parallels

44:00 Biblical examples of the physical and spiritual overlapping

45:55 Time travel, quantum physics, and the transfiguration

47:18 Where to connect with Jonathan and his work

48:04 Thoughts on the new disclosure movie

49:11 "We need to get away from the idea that UFOs are demons."

49:56 Jonathan's final encouragement to Christians

Forgiveness is one of the most necessary parts of the Christian life, but it is also one of the most misunderstood. In this episode, Brandon and Sandy sit down with Dr. Everett Worthington to talk about what forgiveness actually is, what it is not, and why reconciliation is something different altogether. Dr. Worthington shares the tragic story of his mother’s murder and how that moment forced him to live out the very forgiveness he had spent years studying and teaching. The conversation explores decisional forgiveness, emotional forgiveness, rumination, resentment, justice, boundaries, and what happens inside us when unforgiveness takes root. Dr. Worthington also walks through his REACH model and offers practical help for those who feel stuck in pain, anger, or grief. This is a powerful, honest, and hope-filled conversation for anyone wrestling with what it means to forgive without pretending the wound never happened.

Ev's Book https://a.co/d/01UMgKXo
Ev's Website -https://www.evworthington-forgiveness.com/

Timestamps

00:08 Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing

00:28 Welcome to the Unrefined Podcast

00:51 Introducing Dr. Everett Worthington and the topic of forgiveness

03:13 Dr. Worthington’s early work studying forgiveness

05:36 The murder of Dr. Worthington’s mother

07:41 Wrestling with anger after tragedy

10:06 Realizing he had to face forgiveness personally

12:29 Forgiveness does not erase justice

14:56 Defining forgiveness through stress and coping

17:12 Understanding the injustice gap

19:37 Different biblical ways to respond to injustice

21:57 Decisional forgiveness and emotional forgiveness

24:17 Restraint, the brain, and choosing not to retaliate

26:41 The difference between forgiveness and reconciliation

29:00 Boundaries, toxic relationships, and reconciliation

30:22 What it means to love your enemy

32:50 The REACH model of forgiveness

35:12 Giving the gift of forgiveness

37:32 When hurt comes back after forgiving

39:51 Anger, fear, and the body’s protective response

42:14 Rumination and unforgiveness

44:35 Vengeance, grudge-holding, and gender differences

47:02 Decisional forgiveness, emotional forgiveness, and well-being

49:07 Matthew 6 and “forgive to be forgiven”

51:25 Forgiveness, salvation, and God’s judgment

53:51 A word for listeners carrying deep wounds

55:36 Practicing forgiveness over time

After four years, hundreds of conversations, strange rabbit trails, incredible guests, Bigfoot, Laurel Canyon, spiritual warfare, liminal spaces, theology, heart transformation—and more than a few things we still can’t explain—the Unrefined Podcast is signing off.

For this final episode, Brandon is joined by Lindsy and Sandy to look back at how a couple of weird conversations became a podcast, how “Stairs in the Woods” helped launch the whole thing, and how years of exploring the seen and unseen changed the way they see the world, faith, people, and even themselves.

They revisit some favorite episodes and guests, remember what happened behind the scenes, talk about the danger of going too far down the rabbit hole, and reflect on one of the biggest lessons Unrefined taught them: listen to people’s stories, hold some opinions loosely, leave room for mystery, and stay anchored to Jesus.

But this isn’t simply about looking backward. Somewhere along the way, the conversation became a journey. The podcast may be ending, but “Unrefined” was never really about a podcast—or even the strange subjects they explored. It was about imperfect people willing to ask questions, grow, change their minds, and discover what all this information actually means for the way we live.

So for now, we conclude our broadcast day.

Good night, everybody.

https://unrefined.life

00:01:41 – We Now Conclude Our Broadcast Day
00:03:50 – How Did Unrefined Even Get Started?
00:05:53 – Stairs in the Woods: Where It All Began
00:08:35 – When the Weirdness Started Getting Real
00:10:49 – How the Podcast Changed the Way We See the World
00:12:02 – Bigfoot, Cryptids & Opening Up to Possibility
00:13:40 – A Bigger, More Complex Spiritual Realm
00:15:32 – When the Supernatural Becomes Personal
00:16:54 – Strong Opinions Held Loosely
00:20:05 – Exploring Without Sensationalizing
00:21:15 – The Episode That Almost Got Us Kicked Off YouTube
00:22:22 – Where the Old Episodes Will Live
00:23:46 – What Do We Do With Everything We Learned?
00:24:38 – Listen to People’s Stories Before Judging Them
00:27:50 – Nancy, Laurel Canyon & the Power of Telling Your Story
00:28:56 – Looking Back at the Laurel Canyon Rabbit Hole
00:30:25 – Behind the Scenes: The Episodes You Never Heard
00:31:43 – Sandy, Editing & Four Years Behind the Curtain
00:32:43 – Lindsy Confesses He’s Been AI the Whole Time
00:34:19 – Coast to Coast & Other Early Influences
00:35:00 – From Cryptids to Discipleship: Why Unrefined Was Different
00:36:33 – The People and Friendships That Made It Worth It
00:37:03 – When the Podcast Started Losing Its Shine
00:38:55 – The Danger of Going Too Far Down the Rabbit Hole
00:39:55 – What “Unrefined” Has Really Meant All Along
00:41:20 – From a Conversation to a Journey
00:42:14 – What Happens Next for Unrefined?
00:43:00 – The End of the Unrefined Podcast