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  • Why global health needs collective leadership | Heather Anderson and David Kamau

    Why global health needs collective leadership | Heather Anderson and David Kamau
    Jan 8 2026
    Lasting impact happens inside people and adaptation is the critical skill.

    “That trusted network of peers is what keeps leaders standing when the work feels overwhelming.”

    In this episode of Messy with Daniel Atlin, I have a conversation with Heather Anderson (CEO) and David Kamau (Chief Program Officer) from Global Health Corps to explore what leadership really looks like when the stakes are high, the data is incomplete, and the path forward isn’t clear.

    GHC was built on a core belief that systems don’t have agency, people do. It is focused on building capacity in health systems through fostering leadership competencies and skills in early and mid-career leaders in Africa and the U.S.

    David and Heather they unpack how GHC built a “movement” of emerging health leaders across Africa and the U.S. and they do that through tapping into lived and shared experiences, building coaching muscles and a peer community, and harnessing the power of public narrative. They talk candidly about adaptability in crisis, navigating equity and power and preventing burnout in under-resourced systems.

    Key themes of this conversation are:
    - Leadership is a practice, not a position
    - Adaptability is the signature leadership trait
    - Networks prevent burnout and isolation accelerates It
    - Leadership development is a long game where impact doesn’t always show up immediately or cleanly
    - Careers are non-linear and purpose is the best anchor
    - Collective leadership is greater than singular heroic leadership

    We also talk about the relevance of Marshall Ganz’s work on public narrative and its importance to fostering movements and change.
    The work David and Heather do, and the impact of Global Health Corps is impressive.

    If you’ve ever wondered how leaders in a global non-profit keep going in the mess, this conversation is your blueprint.

    And if you want to support an amazing organisation follow and support GHC. Global Health Corps website and how to support them · Information about Marshal Ganz and his work on Public Narrative · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    48 Min.
  • Leading like a jazz conductor, not a classical maestro | Mark Walton

    Leading like a jazz conductor, not a classical maestro | Mark Walton
    Dec 9 2025
    Hospitals are messy, complex, adaptive systems.

    In this episode, I speak with Mark Walton, President and CEO of Guelph General Hospital. Together, we explore what leadership looks like inside one of the messiest systems we have: a community hospital under relentless pressure. We'll learn lessons to get through the mess.

    Mark traces his health care journey from a 17-year-old ward clerk to finally realising his teenage dream of becoming a hospital CEO and why he cried in the middle of Canadian Tire when he got the call offering him the role of his dreams.

    He makes the case that hospitals and universities as a different species of organisation and are really complex adaptive systems that don't act like a traditional business. They are mission-driven, financially constrained, and constantly juggling patient care, staff well-being, community trust, donors, and regulators.

    Mark shares what he learned in previous roles, leading Ontario’s COVID-19 response: the importance of naming uncertainty, the long shadow of trauma on health-care workers, and a powerful story of learning a key leadership lesson by stepping into the “cracks between systems” to support migrant farm workers when “no help was coming.”

    Along the way, he talks about AI in healthcare, the loneliness of the CEO role, why he leads more like a jazz conductor than a classical maestro, and how music, teaching, and rest help him stay grounded.

    It's a candid, hopeful conversation about complexity, values, and leading humans in a system that never sleeps. Guelph General Hospital's website · Mark Walton's LinkedIn profile · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    45 Min.
  • Reputation, purpose, and the mess of leadership | Tania Rhodes-Taylor

    Reputation, purpose, and the mess of leadership | Tania Rhodes-Taylor
    Nov 27 2025
    Stewardship in an Age of Noise.

    Executive Director of Communications

    “When leadership goes wrong is when people cling to the baton — and you have to peel their cold, dead hands off it."

    In this episode, I sit down with Tania Rhodes-Taylor, Executive Director of Communications and External Affairs at King’s College London, and Chair of the World 100 Reputation Network, to explore what it really takes to lead in a purpose-driven institution in turbulent times.

    She shares her origin story, being the first in her family to go to university, her experience and perspective gained from working in multiple industries and countries, and what drives her personally.

    Central themes are the importance of reputation, purpose, and stewardship in an age of noise. She says that "reputation is our currency" and that leader should be stewards rather than trying to be main character heroes.

    Tania also share about the importance of art in providing a window into society and culture.

    Key insights:
    💡 Begin every decision with purpose and ask the right questions before deploying solutions.
    💡 Treat reputation as currency as it enables the opportunities of tomorrow.
    💡 Stay human and connected as leadership in complex institutions demands networks, trust and vulnerability.
    💡 Embrace agility and honest institutional conversations about impact, differentiation and identity.
    💡 Prioritise stewardship over personal spotlight and glory as your legacy should be an institution ready for the future.

    If you enjoyed this episode, please share with a colleague, subscribe to Messy with Daniel Atlin, and leave a review to help others discover the podcast. As ever, getting through the mess is easier with friends and colleagues. Connect with Tania on LinkedIn · Tania's firm: Otus Advisory · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    41 Min.
  • Changing the narrative - regreening a community | Lynn Wells

    Changing the narrative - regreening a community | Lynn Wells
    Nov 12 2025
    Leading through renewal and reinvention.

    What does it take to lead after an institutional trauma and how to do this work without making it about you?

    Dr. Lynn Wells, President and Vice-Chancellor of Laurentian University, traces a steady path from crisis to renewal: changing a damaging narrative, rebuilding trust, and putting “student-first” at the centre of every hard call.

    Drawing on her earlier chapters at other institutions, from reconciliation work at First Nations University of Canada to student-centred leadership at MacEwan and pandemic decision-making at Brock — Lynn shows how process, patience, and humility become anchors when the ground keeps shifting.

    Lynn is candid about the human work beneath the headlines: helping a community heal, rejecting doom language, and choosing to lead alongside rather than from the front. She unpacks Laurentian’s tricultural identity, the deep bond with the city of Sudbury, and a powerful metaphor for recovery is the city’s decades-long “regreening,” a science-led restoration that mirrors the university’s rebuild.

    Along the way Lynn addresses why good governance beats quick fixes, how to keep purpose intact under political and financial pressure, and the disciplines that keep leaders steady: clear boundaries, exercise, and grace for human fallibility.

    This conversation is a grounded reflection on hope, discipline, and the long game of rebuilding step by step: one honest process, one student-first decision, and one reframed story at a time. About Laurentian University · Regreening Sudbury story · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    51 Min.
  • A foot in two different worlds | Daniel Sharaiha

    A foot in two different worlds | Daniel Sharaiha
    Oct 29 2025
    Balancing heart and mind.

    This “Messy” conversation is a bit of a departure from previous episodes as I talk to a bank executive in the Middle East who also works with NGOs and charities.

    Daniel Sharaiha grew up and lives in Jordan with one foot in business and the other in the NGO world. That tension, he says, keeps him humble: his head and heart never quite fit neatly into either sector, and that’s exactly why he sees complexity and the mess of leadership clearly.

    From welcoming millions of refugees in a water-scarce country to championing women’s participation in the workforce, Daniel frames leadership as service rooted in empathy, justice, and hope. He argues that empathy isn’t “soft” but rather it’s a strategic requirement that fuels organisations. His empathy stems from his identity as being an outsider, which provides a unique vantage point. He views influence and trust as the essential commodity for leadership in any organisation.

    In a world where “the unusual is now the usual,” Daniel leans on humour, improvisation, and resilience. He believes that we are in a world that requires generalists, and the ability to cross-train and build complementary skills the way a runner swims to become a better runner. He’s candid about failures (including a teenage hair-tonic misadventure that left him bald) and why leaders must bridge what seems as polar opposites: head and heart, profit and purpose, certainty and curiosity.

    Underpinning Daniel’s leadership is “hope”, and a desire to make the world a better place: building tables (sometimes literally) where people can gather, argue, laugh, and keep going together.

    Key lessons:
    • Empathy as an edge: it strengthens your leadership impact
    • Humour lowers defences: laughter opens the “window”
    • Improv is survival: change is “business as usual”
    • Cross-train your strengths
    • Dialogue over monologue: making meaning together Daniel Sharaiha's LinkedIn profile · Daniel Sharaiha's Convocation speech at HEC Paris · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    34 Min.
  • Lead with purpose, not position | Dr Diana Beech

    Lead with purpose, not position | Dr Diana Beech
    Oct 15 2025
    Navigating the mess to find opportunities.

    In a messy world, leadership doesn’t come with a roadmap — it comes with questions, courage, and relentless purpose.

    In this rich and reflective conversation, Dr. Diana Beech, inaugural Director of the Finsbury Institute at City St George’s, University of London, explores her unconventional career path across academia, government, and policy and what it teaches about leading in complex, purpose-driven organisations.
    Her story is one of adaptability, curiosity, and moral purpose, offering a grounded view of what leadership really looks like in the “mess” of public life and higher education.

    Our conversation touches on:
    • Her winding journey from academia to policy and back, taking a combination of serendipity, risk-taking, drive and hard work
    • The challenge of building something new, the Finsbury Institute, from the ground up
    • Why universities are struggling not just financially, but in public legitimacy
    • Lessons from failure, resilience, and self-belief and recognizing there is no shame in failing and the need to share our failure stories too.
    • Her guiding leadership principle: “Lead with purpose, not position”

    This conversation is for anyone trying to lead in messy systems — especially in higher education, government, or public service.

    She also shares her appreciation of an opportunity to talk about the mess of leadership and making sense of complex institutions. The Finsbury Institute at City St. Georges, University of London · Dr. Diana Beech on LinkedIn · Link to the HEPI report: Unboxing Higher Education · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    34 Min.
  • Leading Through Healing | Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon

    Leading Through Healing | Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon
    Oct 6 2025
    Know yourself: surrender to the mess.

    What does it really mean to lead with authenticity? And how does healing your own wounds shape the way you show up as a leader?

    In this powerful episode of MESSY, host Daniel Atlin sits down with Dr. Benoit-Antoine Bacon, President and Vice Chancellor of the University of British Columbia.

    Dr. Bacon’s story and journey is anything but ordinary. He opens up about his unexpected rise from teaching psychology at Bishop’s University to leading one of the top universities in the world.

    Along the way, he has faced and overcome deep personal challenges, including a traumatic childhood, years of substance use, and the difficult journey toward recovery. He shares how his healing has not only transformed his life, but also his leadership.

    What makes this conversation so compelling is Dr. Bacon’s honesty. He speaks candidly about fear, shame, and the hidden “family ghosts” that shape us, and contrasts the exhausting “path of control and fear” with the liberating “path of compassion and love.” Drawing from Hindu, Buddhist, and Christian wisdom, he reminds us that the true work of leadership is not just about strategy, budgets, or outcomes, it’s about cultivating inner peace and leading from a place of respect, compassion, and authenticity.

    His message is clear: “The first responsibility of a leader is to heal themselves.”

    This episode is for anyone navigating leadership, change, or personal growth. If you’ve ever wondered how to balance ambition with wellbeing, or how to show up more authentically in your own life, you won’t want to miss this conversation. Link to Benoit-Antoine Bacon at UBC · Link to DJA Sensemaking and a text of the full podcast · Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    35 Min.
  • Tap into an outsider mindset | Tim McTiernan

    Tap into an outsider mindset | Tim McTiernan
    Sep 29 2025
    Your identity is your superpower.

    Tim McTiernan is Irish-Canadian and has extensive experience in social purpose organisations from governments (Ontario, Yukon, Ireland) and post-secondary institutions (University of Toronto, Canadore College, Ontario Tech).

    In this Messy with Daniel Atlin podcast, I speak with Tim as he shares his life journey from growing up in Ireland with a Catholic father and Protestant mother to his career across various leadership roles in Canada. Tim reflects on being an "outsider" in various contexts and how this shaped his approach to leadership.

    Tim provides insights into mastering stakeholder engagement and multi-party negotiations. He emphasises the importance of listening and collaboration, particularly when addressing complex issues with First Nations and other stakeholders.

    He also emphasises the importance of embracing roles fully even when in acting positions, learning by observing before acting, and finding ways to collaborate across institutional boundaries despite policy constraints. His experiences serve as invaluable lessons for those looking to thrive in challenging environments.

    Tim advises leaders to quickly understand current operational constraints, identify areas of flexibility, and look for creative solutions. He emphasises the need to "find the carriers of a vision and put them on pedestals where they can enable, support, and mentor people who can execute the visions."
    He acknowledges that transitions won't be easy and may be "hurtful to personnel and budgetarily challenging, but the status quo can't stand."

    He uses a story from his lifeguard days about the importance of looking for patterns and distortions in water - a metaphor for what leaders and their teams face in uncertain times. Website · Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn
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    47 Min.