I met Justin Jacobs on LinkedIn. We were in an exchange which became testy for some, but not for us. We stayed respectful as we engaged in a sincere exchange about an issue, probing for truth as Justin put it. We followed up by phone and subsequently decided to record an episode. And I've glad we did.

Listening to the audio file very closely as I do to edit, I was reminded how blessed I am to have spoken with Justin and so many guests like him. He tells it like he sees it, and by that I don’t mean "others" or "situations." I mean Justin. He's candid about himself and his experiences, including a recent and significant transition from 22 years in the Coast Guard. As he launches a new coaching practice focusing on leadership and people in transition, he's doing what he tells clients to do: Continue discovering, learning and growing to show up as your best self in what you do.

I know you'll have some ahh-ha! moments in this episode. Here are a few of mine:

1:28 - I was out of my depth and posing as a leader in my first formal leadership position. The Coast Guard offered officer leadership training and it as the first time in my life I did any real introspection about who I was.

3:58 - The relationship between getting on the same page with oneself and with others, especially when in a leadership role.

8:00 - Why understanding the 'why' of a plan or a direction matters.

16:22 - Why it's important to know what you're wired for - and not.

24:02 - A definition of being on the same page.

34:48 - The benefit to being on the same page with your team and the different mental models team members have about any situation.

42:09 - Does getting on the same page assume good intent? And what do we do if that's missing?

53:57 - What to do if you can't get on the same page with someone.

When Cal Shintani and I discussed recording a podcast episode, it was clear to me we'd talk about mentoring. Cal has a long mentoring background and described some ideas about the same page mentors and proteges get on that I wanted to record. Cool.

Then he mentioned his merger and acquisition experience. M&A's are common in the Federal contracting community. What's not common is for a consultant to be involved in several. And what's even less common is for a consultant to connect mergers with mentoring. But Cal had. He'd added mentoring to mergers and learned some valuable lessons about getting two organizational cultures on the same page while connecting individuals to the newly emerging culture. To the merged culture. Very cool!

In this episode, Cal discusses his experience getting people on the same mentoring and merger pages, and what he did when people couldn't get there. Here are a few of my favorite ahh-ha! moments:

3:57 - Building trust and relationships through the mentoring program of a government-industry IT professional association - ACT-IAC

6:58 - A mind-bending exercise - you be me and I'll be you

8:40 - The same page mentors and proteges should get on

11:50 - Resisting the temptation to advise as a mentor, and how it can change the conversation

16:32 - How a same page emerges from a trusted relationship

25:44 - What you see, what you make of what you see, what you would do, to what end

29:44 - What if you can't get on the same page?

37:00 - Mergers and cultural fit. We both say we're entrepreneurial, but are we saying the same thing?

46:11 - Mentoring and mergers

In Part 2 of our conversation, Dr. Gerhardt and I dig deeper into what it means to be on the same page across generations in the workplace. Her Gentelligence mantra that we each have something to contribute and something to learn was an ahh-ha! moment for me, enough to make me re-think what I think it means to be on the same page! We look closely at generations and organizational culture, ageism, how questions have the power to create Gentelligence, and what it was like writing Gentelligence: The Revolutionary Approach to Leading an Intergenerational Workforce. Here are a few of my favorite ahh-ha! moments:

0:07 - If getting on the same page is about alignment, believing each of us has something to contribute and learn can create alignment across generations

2:07 - Tension in the workplace between digital natives and digital immigrants - or how young Millennials and Gen Z have certain expertise early in their careers

6:02 - Psychological safety in organizational culture, and what different generations really want from culture

14:40 - Age, generations and people strategies at work

19:15 - Megan calls me out for age bias I didn't even see!

27:45 - The next book project about integrating age into organization's DEI strategies

Gentelligence - Intelligence produced by inter-generational learning and collaboration.

This week's guest and co-authors have added this meaningful word to our vocabulary - also the title of their book - and it's one I predict will be added to dictionaries. The concept's value isn't limited to the workplace, but with five generations of Americans in the workforce, the concept's time has come.

Dr. Megan Gerhardt, Professor of Leadership at Miami University's Farmer School of Business, joins me for this episode to discuss ways generations conflict or collaborate at work, and how a few simple conversation techniques can transform suspicion and tension into trusting relationships. Relationships rich with creativity and innovation - and respect - which come from generational differences.

Megan and I had a lot to talk about so I split the conversation into two episodes. Here are a few of my favorite ahh-ha! moments from Part 1:

1:41 - How some foundational ideas which would become Gentelligence came from being a 26-year old university instructor closer in age to her students than to many of her colleagues - and appreciating the diversity of ideas she saw

3:17 - "Please help us figure out what to do with these millennials!"

8:08 - Generational diversity can produce collaboration, learning and intelligence - except left to our own devices that doesn't usually happen. Like any diversity, generational diversity must be managed to be useful.

11:09 - What is a generation, and why do they matter?

18:48 - "Oh! You're taking notes on your phone while I'm talking? That's not what I thought you were doing…."

21:13 - Four practices for creating Gentelligence. The first one is conduct an assumption audit and I LOVE that phrase! Then adjust the lens, build trust and expand the pie - and each comes with simple conversation practices to use.

In Part 1 of our conversation, Terry Leberfinger and I talked about health and safety issues on the minds of employees, as the pandemic winds down, in a successful battery recycling operation where Terry's Executive Vice President for Human Resources. In this episode we discuss the business case for change as markets and environment, health and safety (EHS) regulations changed over 40 years. We dig into the psychology of change in the workplace, looking closely at how leadership works with employees - who've been on the job for decades - to not only solve problems but to unthink old ways of doing things and turn challenges into opportunities.

I always enjoy talking to Terry, and here are a few of my favorite ahh-ha! moments:

0:22 - Being on the same as a clear destination

2:00 - How an ambitious goal motivated uncommon innovation and performance

4:36 - Turning a compliance cost into a revenue stream

7:32 - Organizational change, Kubler-Ross, and the stages of grief

12:37 - Putting old know-how to use in new jobs and processes

16:00 - Showing up Sundays to walk the floor and talk

21:06 - Managerial courage leading change

I've known this week's guest for 25 years. Terry Leberfinger has been a client, a fellow New Orleans Jazz Fest krewe member, a friend and now a podcast guest with uncommon insight into organizational change. Terry's an executive with a long background in transformational change. He's held positions in human resources, environment, health and safety, in settings ranging from offices to global manufacturing operations. He's equally comfortable on shop floors and in executive board rooms - both places where he has a knack for changing conversations which change organizations. We cover a lot of ground in two episodes, and here are some of my favorite ahh-ha! moments from Part 1:

1:46 - What are people on the same page about as the pandemic winds down

5:57 - A different safety mindset following the pandemic

9:22 - Employees are taking ownership of their own well-being

20:20 - As executives our job is basically to remove variances

22:01 - A great perspective shift: Some small number of injuries seems acceptable until you ask leadership to name the people to be injured

23:23 - Some costs of injury are easy to add up. But one man documented costs we don't usually hear about - to his mental health, marriage and family.

In Part 2 of our discussion, Richard Spires talks about the subject of his upcoming book - running government programs effectively and efficiently. We discuss the importance of governance not only for delivering program results, but also for building relationships and problem solving capability, generally. Richard also explains how cultivating mentor relationships and expertise - two of the 12 traits he wrote about in his first book - can help young professionals make valuable contributions to how programs are run.

Visit Richard-Spires.com to check out his first book, "Success in the Technology Field - A Guide For Advancing Your Career," and watch for his second later this year. Here are a few of my favorite ahh-ha! moments for Part 2 of our conversation. And please forgive the occasional audio "scratches" I couldn't edit out.

1:58 - Open and honest governance conversations lead to a better informed team with more options to solve problems

5:42 - How a senior governance team prepared the Internal Revenue Service to take electronic returns in a much shorter time than anyone thought possible.

9:35 - The trusted environment - even people who want to be open and honest will become guarded if they're not sure then can trust others in the room.

12:31 - The value of mentorship for young professionals learning project and program management ropes.

14:27 - The value of cultivating expertise that you're known for, especially early in your career.

20:54 - Can running programs effectively and efficiently restore trust in government?

If you're not a technologist (I'm not), you might think success in a technology field hinges on technical knowledge. Technologists know exactly which technical knowledge and skill is required for success, and they know there's more.

Working with people? Check. Understanding business needs? Check. Listening, negotiating, problem solving? Checks all around. And my guest this week will tell you that's not all.

Richard Spires is an accomplished technologist who will tell you that in every leadership position he's held, getting people on the same page was key to success. It wasn't the only key. But team and stakeholder misalignment will sink a small technology project or a major modernization, just the same.

As happens in great conversations, Richard and I lost track of time and ran long, so I'm publishing it as two episodes. Part 1 examines the people skills organizations need in their technologists. Part 2 will focus on what it takes for government to operate effectively and efficiently. Please forgive the occasional audio "scratch" I couldn't edit out.

Listen in and be sure to visit Richard-Spires.com to check out his first book, "Success in the Technology Field - A Guide For Advancing Your Career." Here are a few of my favorite ahh-ah! moments from Part 1:

2:45 and on - Technology is delivered through projects, and one's ability to manage projects effectively is critical to technology's success. And that requires the leadership of people.

5:55 - A definition of "technologist" that might surprise you - but makes perfect sense.

10:03 - When very senior people see very large technology projects… very differently.

12:15 - Constant communication is critical in part because project plans change the moment a project is kicked-off

19:34 - Why creating a trusted environment - not just trust - is critical to project success.

28:20 - Important advice for young leaders - learn the leadership style that fits you. And find a mentor.