Talking about money makes most therapists uncomfortable, especially when it comes to raising fees.

Tiffany McLain, Founder and CEO of Lean In. MAKE BANK., joins Michael Fulwiler to explore how therapists can build financially sustainable practices without sacrificing their values or clinical integrity.

Tiffany shares how her personal upbringing shaped her views on money, why sliding scales aren’t always ethical, and how therapists can rethink their business model to better support themselves and their clients. She also breaks down the unconscious patterns that often hold therapists back from charging what they need and how confronting those patterns can deepen the clinical work.

Listen to this conversation to help you think differently about what it means to be a successful therapist in private practice.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• The internalized beliefs that hold therapists back from raising fees, and how these often stem from family dynamics
• What therapists get wrong about sliding scale models and why setting fees based on assumptions about a client’s income can damage the therapeutic relationship
• The strategy Tiffany teaches to help therapists leave insurance panels and build premium-fee caseloads

Connect with the guest:

• Tiffany on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leaninmakebank/
• Tiffany on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiffanymclain/
• Visit the Lean In. MAKE BANK. website: https://leaninmakebank.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(01:05) Meet Tiffany McLain

(02:21) Childhood Lessons that Shaped Tiffany’s Money Beliefs

(04:34) Hiding Financial Goals During Therapy School Interviews

(06:20) The Mindset Most Therapists Bring to Private Practice

(08:03) How Tiffany Challenged the Fee Status Quo

(10:12) Early Lessons on Raising Fees at Access

(12:24) Common Myths Therapists Believe about Setting Fees

(14:54) Why Therapists Assume Clients Can’t Afford Therapy

(16:32) Private Practice Isn’t Built to Serve Everyone

(19:40) Sliding Scale Often Masks Money Avoidance

(23:02) A Practical Method for Calculating Your Fee

(25:30) What to Say When Raising Your Rate

(30:18) Low Fees Can Harm the Therapeutic Relationship

(33:59) Can You Build a Practice on Insurance?

(40:31) Tiffany’s Four-Step Framework for Premium Practices

(46:39) Hiring Challenges and Growing a Values-Led Business

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

What does it take to turn decades of clinical experience into a movement that reshapes therapy around the world?

Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman joins Michael Fulwiler to share her personal and professional journey behind co-founding The Gottman Institute and co-developing the Gottman Method.

Julie recounts the pivotal decisions that led her from private practice to co-creating a global clinical training business with her husband, Dr. John Gottman. She also opens up about growing up in a family shaped by generational trauma, navigating early challenges in the mental health field, and why she’s always gravitated toward serving clients in deep pain.

Tune in to learn how Julie balanced a mission-driven mindset with the realities of running a business, and why therapists should protect their values even as their practices grow.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Building a sustainable private practice rooted in service
• How the Gottman Method evolved from research to widely taught clinical framework
• What every therapist needs to remember when navigating visibility and legacy

Connect with the guest:

• The Gottman Institute on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
• The Gottman Institute on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-gottman-institute/
• Visit The Gottman Institute website: https://www.gottman.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:25) Meet Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman

(01:26) How generational trauma shaped Julie’s early life

(03:51) Childhood suicide attempt that changed her path

(05:05) Visiting concentration camps and reclaiming Jewish identity

(06:52) Creating a crisis hotline during the Vietnam War

(13:09) Polio, pain, and finding empathy through suffering

(15:21) Living in India and feeding street children

(17:21) Journey from Kathmandu to grad school in 36 hours

(22:15) Meeting John Gottman and instant recognition

(28:41) Launching the Gottman Institute from a dining table

(31:09) Developing the Gottman Method

(35:53) Working 40 clinical hours while building a business

(42:51) Upholding standards for the Gottman Referral Network

(47:16) Facing constant sexism while building a global brand

(52:39) Rapid-fire questions on legacy, joy, and hope

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Therapists entering the field face a hidden obstacle that can derail their entire career: finding affordable, accessible clinical supervision.

Rachel Ledbetter, licensed marriage and family therapist and CEO of Motivo, joins Michael Fulwiler to share how her own struggle to get licensed in rural Georgia led her to build a company that’s now helping thousands of therapists cross the finish line to licensure.

In this candid conversation, Rachel talks about her early startup mistakes, the values that guide Motivo’s pricing model, and what it’s like to raise venture capital as a therapist in tech. She also reflects on the identity shifts that came with divorce and growing a mission-driven company.

Listen to this episode to hear how Rachel turned one of the biggest barriers to becoming a therapist into a business that’s helping others get licensed.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• The supervision bottleneck and why so many therapists never get licensed
• How Rachel bootstrapped Motivo without a technical background
• What therapists get wrong about venture capital and tech startups

Connect with the guest:

• Rachel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelmccrickard/
• Visit the Motivo website: https://motivohealth.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:51) Meet Rachel Ledbetter

(03:00) From Bible Ministry Degree to Therapy Career

(05:00) Shifting Away from Faith-Based Counseling

(07:00) Working Skid Row and Post-Grad Supervision Struggles

(09:00) Driving Four Hours Weekly for Supervision

(11:00) Launching Motivo on Shopify with No Tech Team

(13:00) Growing Fast Through Professional Association Partnerships

(15:00) Why Motivo Switched to B2B Model

(17:00) The Supervision Crisis Blocking Licensure for Therapists

(21:00) What Most Therapists Misunderstand about Venture Capital

(24:00) Why Motivo Doesn’t Let Supervisors Set Rates

(27:00) Learning to Give Hard Feedback as a Leader

(34:00) Separating Your Identity from Your Business

(42:00) Advice for Therapists Who Want to Build Tech

(49:00) Rachel’s Favorite Founders and Lessons from Luck

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

What if your love for sneakers, storytelling, and sports could help shape a thriving private practice?

Liz Beecroft-Ridgway, licensed clinical social worker and founder of MENTL.SESH, joins Michael Fulwiler to share how she built a brand that bridges therapy, creative partnerships, and athlete mental health. From designing a sneaker with Nike to leading workshops with Saucony and speaking at Phillies games, Liz reveals how she’s turned her unique passions into professional impact.

She opens up about leaving the foster care system, launching her own practice, and learning how to price, pitch, and partner with major brands, all while staying true to her mission.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• How to position your practice to attract aligned partnerships
• Why therapists should embrace their full identity online
• What to consider when creating custom vs. standardized offerings

Connect with the guest:

• Liz on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lizbcroft/
• Liz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizbcroftlcsw/
• Visit the MENTL.SESH website: https://www.mentlsesh.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:18) Meet Liz Beecroft-Ridgway

(01:31) How Philly Sports Culture Shaped Liz

(03:09) Anxiety and Pressure in Competitive Youth Sports

(05:38) How Female Athletes Process Mental Health Differently

(07:06) From Bio Major to Psych Major at NYU

(09:50) Posting Sneakers Online Led to Burnout Relief

(11:06) Designing a Nike Sneaker About Mental Health

(14:24) Working in Foster Care and the Burnout Cycle

(18:14) First Steps into Building a Private Practice

(20:21) Shifting Niche to Athletes and High Performers

(23:28) Therapists vs. Sports Psychologists

(25:26) Launching a Brand That’s Bigger Than Therapy

(28:43) Creating Mental Health Tools Through Brand Partnerships

(38:33) Pricing Custom Workshops Without Underselling Yourself

(43:27) What Therapists Should Know About Sponsored Content

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Leaving community mental health to build a thriving private practice isn’t easy, especially as a young therapist navigating burnout, financial stress, and single motherhood.

Danielle Swimm, licensed clinical social worker and founder of The Entrepreneurial Therapist, joins Michael Fulwiler to share her path from driving Uber and making home visits to coaching other therapists on how to market themselves, go off insurance panels, and build sustainable businesses.

Danielle opens up about the mindset shifts that helped her stop “manic marketing,” redefine entrepreneurship on her own terms, and create time freedom while staying clinically excellent.

Listen in to learn how she went from feeling overwhelmed and underpaid to becoming a confident therapist entrepreneur with multiple income streams, and how you can, too.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• How to leave insurance panels and still fill your caseload
• Danielle’s favorite strategies for getting private pay clients
• Why doing less but better is her business mantra

Connect with the guest:

• Danielle on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/entrepreneurialtherapist/
• Danielle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-swimm-283160234/
• Visit The Entrepreneurial Therapist website: https://www.theentrepreneurialtherapist.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:25) Meet Danielle Swimm

(03:19) Discovering therapy at 16 and struggling through high school

(04:21) Learning leadership and business from a clinical director

(07:25) Driving for Uber and doing crisis work to make ends meet

(10:39) The realities and risks of doing unmonitored home visits

(13:04) Learning marketing through trial and error without business mentors

(18:00) Redefining what it means to be an entrepreneur as a therapist

(22:32) The long, messy road to starting a private practice

(25:05) How Danielle transitioned off insurance panels

(27:14) Manic marketing vs. focused marketing

(30:46) Embracing the mindset of a full caseload before it happens

(36:08) Behind the scenes of Danielle’s course, Mastermind, and income streams

(45:17) The best ways to get private pay clients today

(48:11) Navigating tech, AI, and therapy’s uncertain future

(53:33) Rapid-fire questions on motherhood, burnout, bad advice, and being seen

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Many therapists are feeling pressured to adopt the latest tech tools, but what if embracing every new innovation isn’t always in the best interest of your practice?

Candice Thompson, a licensed marriage and family therapist based in Silicon Valley, joins host Michael Fulwiler to share why she calls herself “tech cautious” and how that stance has helped her build a thoughtful, sustainable private practice.

With 20 years of experience and a growing voice on LinkedIn, Candice offers a grounded perspective on privacy, ethics, and the dangers of moving too fast in a tech-driven therapy world.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• The real risks of AI, coaching overreach, and client data breaches
• How to choose tech that serves your practice, not the other way around
• Why licensed therapists must be the gatekeepers in today’s mental health landscape

Connect with the guest:

• Candice on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/candice-thompson-lmft/
• Visit her website: https://candicecandelaria.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:29) Meet Candice Thompson

(01:49) How Therapy Inspired Candice to Change Careers

(03:33) What USC Taught Her About Ethics and Business

(04:26) Starting Out with No Financial Safety Net

(08:40) How Candice Launched Her Private Practice

(09:59) Using LinkedIn to Think Like an Entrepreneur

(11:44) When Coaching Becomes Illegal Therapy Without a License

(15:19) Why Licensing Exists and Protects Clients From Harm

(18:57) The Dangers of Data Breaches in Therapy Tech

(28:05) What Tech Founders Know About Screen Time

(31:21) Why Candice Chose Spring Health Over Others

(33:03) How Candice Went Viral on LinkedIn

(42:47) A Therapist’s Unfiltered Take on AI in Therapy

(46:41) The Eating Disorder Chatbot That Got Pulled

(50:28) Therapists Have the Power to Shape This Industry

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Starting a private practice is hard enough. Doing it while honoring your values, managing student debt, and keeping therapy human? That’s something else.

Dr. Bryan Harnsberger, a clinical psychologist and co-founder of Wellesley Counseling & Wellness, joins Michael Fulwiler to share how he’s built a thriving practice rooted in authenticity, attunement, and play. From a life-changing car accident at 16 to earning his doctorate and growing a team of 30, Bryan opens up about the messy, real side of business ownership.

You’ll hear how he balances his irreverent personality with the seriousness of clinical work, what it takes to create a workplace that people love, and why taking risks even before you're ready is the only way forward.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Building a people-first practice without burning out
• Navigating student debt while starting your own business
• The value of bringing fun and humanity back into therapy work

Connect with the guest:

• Bryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanharnsberger/
• Visit the Wellesley Counseling & Wellness website: https://www.wellesleycw.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:14) Meet Dr. Bryan Harnsberger

(03:32) Surviving a car crash

(05:10) Losing a friend inspired his therapy career

(07:14) Why he chose a PsyD over PhD

(08:56) Getting diagnosed with ADHD after brain injury

(13:06) How Trump’s block sparked unexpected online influence

(15:17) Humor as a serious tool in therapy

(16:04) Lessons from a toxic group practice experience

(19:59) Cold email to NBA led to big break

(21:45) Building a business with his wife, Emily

(26:07) Starting a practice right before COVID hit

(27:14) Understanding finances changed how he took risks

(32:10) What it took to launch med management

(35:01) Ethical testing vs. insurance reimbursement challenges

(38:05) Leading with compassion, not just policy or process

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Starting and scaling a private practice can feel overwhelming, especially in a rural region with limited resources. Brent Metcalf, a trauma therapist and group practice owner at Tri-Star Counseling, joins Michael Fulwiler to share how he built a thriving therapy business in Appalachia while staying true to his mission of expanding access to care.

Brent opens up about transitioning from social work to private practice, navigating financial uncertainty, and building a practice that reflects his values. He shares the strategies that helped him grow, from offering pro bono sessions during a natural disaster to hiring provisionally licensed therapists and negotiating with insurance companies.

Listen to hear how Brent balances business growth with community care, and why leading with heart can be a powerful strategy for therapists building something of their own.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• What it takes to launch a successful practice in a rural area
• How to grow from solo to group practice without burning out
• Ways to stay connected to your mission while running a business

Connect with the guest:

• Brent on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-metcalf-028870272/
• Visit the Tri-Star Counseling website: https://tri-starcounseling.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(01:36) Introducing Brent Metcalf

(03:01) Growing Up in Rural East Tennessee

(04:31) Small-Town Roots and Musket Bowl Tradition in High School

(05:06) From Ministry to Social Work

(06:11) Joining CPS and Getting Hooked on Fieldwork

(08:10) Choosing to Go Back to Graduate School

(08:52) Transitioning to Vanderbilt and Mental Health Consulting

(10:18) Starting a Therapy Practice Without Business Experience

(14:18) How a Financial Advisor Pushed Him to Go Full-Time

(17:33) Expanding from Part-Time Practice to Full-Time Mission

(18:52) The Importance of Therapy Access in Appalachia

(24:18) Building Trust in Resistant Communities

(30:35) Offering Free Therapy After a Natural Disaster

(34:02) Overcoming Fear of Hiring Employees

(37:17) Navigating Healthcare Crisis Without a Biller

(39:48) The Stress Group Owners Face Daily

(43:27) Negotiating Higher Insurance Reimbursement Rates

(48:15) Staying Connected to Your Why to Prevent Burnout

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.