Talking about money makes most therapists uncomfortable, especially when it comes to raising fees.

Tiffany McLain, Founder and CEO of Lean In. MAKE BANK., joins Michael Fulwiler to explore how therapists can build financially sustainable practices without sacrificing their values or clinical integrity.

Tiffany shares how her personal upbringing shaped her views on money, why sliding scales aren’t always ethical, and how therapists can rethink their business model to better support themselves and their clients. She also breaks down the unconscious patterns that often hold therapists back from charging what they need and how confronting those patterns can deepen the clinical work.

Listen to this conversation to help you think differently about what it means to be a successful therapist in private practice.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• The internalized beliefs that hold therapists back from raising fees, and how these often stem from family dynamics
• What therapists get wrong about sliding scale models and why setting fees based on assumptions about a client’s income can damage the therapeutic relationship
• The strategy Tiffany teaches to help therapists leave insurance panels and build premium-fee caseloads

Connect with the guest:

• Tiffany on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leaninmakebank/
• Tiffany on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiffanymclain/
• Visit the Lean In. MAKE BANK. website: https://leaninmakebank.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(01:05) Meet Tiffany McLain

(02:21) Childhood Lessons that Shaped Tiffany’s Money Beliefs

(04:34) Hiding Financial Goals During Therapy School Interviews

(06:20) The Mindset Most Therapists Bring to Private Practice

(08:03) How Tiffany Challenged the Fee Status Quo

(10:12) Early Lessons on Raising Fees at Access

(12:24) Common Myths Therapists Believe about Setting Fees

(14:54) Why Therapists Assume Clients Can’t Afford Therapy

(16:32) Private Practice Isn’t Built to Serve Everyone

(19:40) Sliding Scale Often Masks Money Avoidance

(23:02) A Practical Method for Calculating Your Fee

(25:30) What to Say When Raising Your Rate

(30:18) Low Fees Can Harm the Therapeutic Relationship

(33:59) Can You Build a Practice on Insurance?

(40:31) Tiffany’s Four-Step Framework for Premium Practices

(46:39) Hiring Challenges and Growing a Values-Led Business

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

What does it take to turn decades of clinical experience into a movement that reshapes therapy around the world?

Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman joins Michael Fulwiler to share her personal and professional journey behind co-founding The Gottman Institute and co-developing the Gottman Method.

Julie recounts the pivotal decisions that led her from private practice to co-creating a global clinical training business with her husband, Dr. John Gottman. She also opens up about growing up in a family shaped by generational trauma, navigating early challenges in the mental health field, and why she’s always gravitated toward serving clients in deep pain.

Tune in to learn how Julie balanced a mission-driven mindset with the realities of running a business, and why therapists should protect their values even as their practices grow.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• Building a sustainable private practice rooted in service
• How the Gottman Method evolved from research to widely taught clinical framework
• What every therapist needs to remember when navigating visibility and legacy

Connect with the guest:

• The Gottman Institute on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
• The Gottman Institute on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-gottman-institute/
• Visit The Gottman Institute website: https://www.gottman.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:25) Meet Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman

(01:26) How generational trauma shaped Julie’s early life

(03:51) Childhood suicide attempt that changed her path

(05:05) Visiting concentration camps and reclaiming Jewish identity

(06:52) Creating a crisis hotline during the Vietnam War

(13:09) Polio, pain, and finding empathy through suffering

(15:21) Living in India and feeding street children

(17:21) Journey from Kathmandu to grad school in 36 hours

(22:15) Meeting John Gottman and instant recognition

(28:41) Launching the Gottman Institute from a dining table

(31:09) Developing the Gottman Method

(35:53) Working 40 clinical hours while building a business

(42:51) Upholding standards for the Gottman Referral Network

(47:16) Facing constant sexism while building a global brand

(52:39) Rapid-fire questions on legacy, joy, and hope

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.

Therapists entering the field face a hidden obstacle that can derail their entire career: finding affordable, accessible clinical supervision.

Rachel Ledbetter, licensed marriage and family therapist and CEO of Motivo, joins Michael Fulwiler to share how her own struggle to get licensed in rural Georgia led her to build a company that’s now helping thousands of therapists cross the finish line to licensure.

In this candid conversation, Rachel talks about her early startup mistakes, the values that guide Motivo’s pricing model, and what it’s like to raise venture capital as a therapist in tech. She also reflects on the identity shifts that came with divorce and growing a mission-driven company.

Listen to this episode to hear how Rachel turned one of the biggest barriers to becoming a therapist into a business that’s helping others get licensed.

In the conversation, they discuss:

• The supervision bottleneck and why so many therapists never get licensed
• How Rachel bootstrapped Motivo without a technical background
• What therapists get wrong about venture capital and tech startups

Connect with the guest:

• Rachel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelmccrickard/
• Visit the Motivo website: https://motivohealth.com/

Connect with Michael and Heard:

• Michael’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelfulwiler/
• Newsletter: https://www.joinheard.com/newsletter
• Book a free consult: joinheard.com/consult

Jump into the conversation:

(00:00) Welcome to Heard Business School

(00:51) Meet Rachel Ledbetter

(03:00) From Bible Ministry Degree to Therapy Career

(05:00) Shifting Away from Faith-Based Counseling

(07:00) Working Skid Row and Post-Grad Supervision Struggles

(09:00) Driving Four Hours Weekly for Supervision

(11:00) Launching Motivo on Shopify with No Tech Team

(13:00) Growing Fast Through Professional Association Partnerships

(15:00) Why Motivo Switched to B2B Model

(17:00) The Supervision Crisis Blocking Licensure for Therapists

(21:00) What Most Therapists Misunderstand about Venture Capital

(24:00) Why Motivo Doesn’t Let Supervisors Set Rates

(27:00) Learning to Give Hard Feedback as a Leader

(34:00) Separating Your Identity from Your Business

(42:00) Advice for Therapists Who Want to Build Tech

(49:00) Rachel’s Favorite Founders and Lessons from Luck

This episode is to be used for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal, business, or tax advice. Each person should consult their own attorney, business advisor, or tax advisor with respect to matters referenced in this episode.