What happens when a man searching for a "mystical" vision in the desert instead discovers a hidden, intergenerational wound—and decides to end his family's lineage of pain with a single pound of his fist?

In this twentieth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Bill McElroy for a powerful conversation about his 2004 initiation at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico. Bill reflects on his spiritual journey leading up to the desert and speaks openly about redefining masculinity. Whether you are carrying the weight of a "father hunger" or simply looking for men to walk shoulder-to-shoulder with in the second half of life, Bill's story is a brilliant reminder to trust your intuition and enter the sacred container.

Episode Highlights

• No Kings in My Life: How discovering the four masculine archetypes made Bill realize he lacked mature male mentors.
• "It Stops With Me": The powerful moment in a grief ritual where Bill took on the pain of his patriarchal lineage and dropped to his knees.
• Beyond John Wayne: Unlearning the toxic toughness of popular culture to embrace a healthy masculinity that is present and generative for others.
• Shoulder-to-Shoulder: Why Bill continues to return to the rites year after year as an elder, setting up chairs and holding the space for new men.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• “Healing” by D. H. Lawrence: https://justiceconversation.org/2018/12/28/healing-by-d-h-lawrence
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Bill McElroy for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a stressed-out doctoral student, given just three weeks to save his academic career, finds himself completely unplugged in the desert and invited to dismantle his ego?

In this nineteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Doug Shirley for a profound conversation about his 2016 initiation at Aravaipa Canyon. Doug, an academic, therapist, and convener for Awaken 2026, shares how he arrived at the rites "freaked out" after his dissertation extension was denied, searching for a "flashy" spiritual experience to stroke his intact ego.

Doug speaks with raw honesty about the unglamorous reality of real growth—joking that transformation usually "sucks ass" in the moment—and recounts how a timely intervention from a brother kept him from quitting early.

Episode Highlights

• The Dissertation Crisis: Arriving in the desert unplugged and under immense pressure from a looming academic deadline.
• Transformation Isn't Pretty: Confronting the feeling of being an impostor in ritual and realizing that profound shifts often feel like longing and disruption.
• The River Intervention: How a firm nudge from a trusted brother stopped Doug from packing it in and going home.
• The "We" of Masculinity: Moving past the idea of a singular masculine ideal to discover the sacred rhythms that exist shoulder-to-shoulder in community.
• Surprised by Support: Entering the rites expecting judgment and puffed-up chests, only to find an overwhelming environment of love.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Doug Shirley for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a man is told by Father Richard Rohr that he isn't "old enough" to have a profound spiritual experience, only to realize exactly what he meant thirty years later?

In this eighteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Tom Melancon for a fascinating look at his lifelong spiritual journey. Tom, a recently retired federal mediator from Seattle, first attended retreats with Richard Rohr in the early 1990s, but it wasn't until he made his official rites at Sky Camp in Oregon at age 64 that he fully experienced the deep transformation he had been seeking.

Tom speaks openly about his 24-year journey in 12-step recovery and the beautiful parallels between recovery mentorship and the open spirituality of Illuman. Whether you are navigating the transition into retirement or looking for a healthier path for the young men in your life, Tom's story is a brilliant testament to trusting the long arc of your own spiritual growth.

Episode Highlights

• "You're Not Old Enough": A breakfast conversation with Richard Rohr in the 90s that finally made sense three decades later.
• Jumping Off the Tower: Embracing the metaphor of building a career of accomplishments and then finding the courage to jump.
• The Posse: How volunteering for a ritual on the very first day led to a deep bond with a group of brothers.
• A State of Grace: Walking in a "liminal space" for months after the rites, where the world simply looked and sounded different.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Tom Melancon for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a spiritually exhausted first responder, hoping for a magical message from God, discovers that true initiation is actually an invitation into human wholeness?

In this seventeenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Brody Fulk for an insightful conversation about his 2024 initiation at Deroche in British Columbia, Canada. Brody arrived at the rites physically and spiritually exhausted from juggling two jobs, seeking internal peace and a radical shift in his thinking.

Brody speaks candidly about confronting his fear of "cults" and letting go of the expectation that God would simply hand him all the answers. He discusses how a tragic call as a first responder eventually led him to Illuman. From moving past the Hollywood model of a man to embracing the guidance of wise elders, Brody's story is a profound reminder of the power of community.

Episode Highlights

• The First Canadian Rites: Overlooking the Fraser Valley and experiencing the massive, mossy forests of the Pacific Northwest.
• Cults and Expectations: Confronting fears of manipulation and letting go of the desire for a "magical" divine message.
• A Shift in Harmony: How the rites awakened an appreciation for poetry and transformed his relationship with playing the guitar.
• Redefining Masculinity: Moving away from the Hollywood provider model to an integrated sense of human wholeness.
• The Need for Elders: Brody's heartfelt advice for younger men to find wise voices they can trust .

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Brody Fulk for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

This episode is dedicated to the memory of Donovan Vicha.

What happens when a man who spent 45 years carrying the pain of his father's rejection finally shatters the past to discover he is the "possibility of love, joy, and wonder"?

In this sixteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Rich Horton for a deeply moving conversation about his 2014 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois. Rich arrived at the rites in his early 70s seeking to navigate a crossroads in his retirement. He shares the profound sense of welcome he felt on the first night—a deep acceptance he hadn't fully experienced since coming out as a gay man in 1989.

Rich reflects on the visceral experience of breaking a mirror to shatter his past, and speaks candidly about healing from the emotional wound of being told his father "didn't want a sissy for his sons". From finding his daily spirit guide in a red cardinal to honoring the memory of a recently passed brother, Rich's story highlights the transformative power of a welcoming, shoulder-to-shoulder male community.

Episode Highlights

• The Welcome of the Drum: Finding immediate acceptance and safety as a gay man entering the rites.
• Shattering the Past: The profound impact of the broken mirror ritual and looking into the eyes of other men.
• Overcoming the "Sissy" Wound: Healing from a father's painful words after 45 years.
• Love, Joy, and Wonder: A moment of meditation in the trees that defined his soul's true nature.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Rich Horton for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a man in formation to become clergy realizes his chosen spiritual path is lacking something essential because it isn't speaking to him as a man?

In this fifteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Rich Gierak for an engaging conversation about his 2006 initiation at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico. Rich shares how he embarked on a three-day motorcycle ride to reach the rites, intentionally setting aside expectations to embrace a "beginner's mind" and going "all in" on the experience.

Rich speaks with insight about transitioning from the boyhood foundational skills of the Scouts into a mature, adult understanding of masculinity. From reading Richard Rohr on a church retreat to helping establish the Northern California chapter of Illuman, Rich’s story highlights why winning stops teaching us anything in the second half of life, and why a healthy male identity must be nurtured shoulder-to-shoulder with other men.

Episode Highlights

• The Wild Man's Journey: How a book read on a church retreat sparked a 20-year involvement with men's initiation.
• The Motorcycle Pilgrimage: Setting the intentions of an open heart and a "beginner's mind" during a three-day ride to Ghost Ranch.
• Beyond the Boys: Transitioning from the valuable lessons of the Boy Scouts into the deeper work of mature adult masculinity.
• Iron Sharpens Iron: Why a healthy male identity must be nurtured in the shoulder-to-shoulder company of other men.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Rich Gierak for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when an Enneagram 7 psychotherapist who has spent his life running from grief finds himself howling in the desert, realizing he needs to trade his "rock-hard" exterior for a fleshy, fertile heart?

In this fourteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Jeffrey Batstone for a profound conversation about his 2016 initiation at Aravaipa Canyon. Jeffrey shares how he arrived at the rites as a curious young father and therapist, only to be "manhandled" and turned upside down by a wild God. He reflects on the archetypal symbol he received during his solitude—a rock cracking open with water pouring out—and how that image has evolved over a decade from jagged stone to a soft, open solar plexus.

Episode Highlights

• The Cracking Rock: How an archetypal image of water pouring from stone guided a decade of inner transformation.
• The Dropkick of God: Embracing the hard, meaningful, and gentle process of being turned upside down.
• Birthing Grief: Moving through physical postures to release decades of unwept tears and howling madness.
• Locking Horns: The powerful moment of pushing against a brother before finally allowing himself to fall apart and be held.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Dr. Jeffrey Batstone: WaterWays Psychotherapy: https://waterwaystherapy.com
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Jeffrey Batstone for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when an intellectual Enneagram 5 complains to Father Richard Rohr about sleeping on a one-inch mattress, only to be told, "That's exactly the point"?

In this thirteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Gary Meagher for a deeply reflective conversation about his 2008 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois . Gary shares how he arrived at the rites as a 55-year-old seeking to jump into the "deep end of the pool" like a pearl diver searching for a greater connection. He reflects on how the visceral, shock value of the weekend forced him out of his comfortable "thinking head" and into a space of profound vulnerability.

Gary recounts the three "North Stars" given by Ritual Elder Stephen Picha—embracing nature, contemplative practice, and a community of men—that continue to guide his life nearly two decades later. From walking a "path of equals" with his father in his final years to comparing the rites to his 38-day pilgrimage on the Camino de Santiago, Gary’s story is a beautiful testament to the "haunting" power of true initiation.

Episode Highlights

• The 1-Inch Mattress: Why a breakfast conversation helped Gary realize he was in liminal space, not on a retreat.
• The Pearl Diver: How reaching age 55 sparked a hunger to dive into the unknown and search for the "pearl" of connection.
• Three North Stars: The post-rites instructions to embrace nature, centering prayer, and male community that Gary still follows.
• Fathers and Sons: Letting go of generational wounds to walk a healing "path of equals" with his aging father.
• The Camino Connection: Why Gary views the MROP as a pinnacle, "haunting" life experience akin to walking across Spain.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• Host: https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Gary Meagher for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams