Podcast summary

After reports raised concerns about CCSD Police using force on students—and disproportionate numbers involving Black and Hispanic students— Heidi Harris sits down with retired Las Vegas Metro Sgt. Tom Page to examine what actually happens when police are called into a volatile situation at school.

Page explains police use-of-force training and the force continuum, beginning with officer presence and verbal commands and escalating depending on a subject's actions and the threat involved. He describes the basic philosophy as “ask, tell, make,” while emphasizing that rapidly developing violence can require officers to skip some of those steps.

The conversation examines whether statistics showing racial disparities in use-of-force incidents tell the whole story. Page argues that individual incidents need to be examined in context: What was happening before police arrived? What was the student doing? What attempts had already been made to stop the behavior? And was the force used reasonable and necessary under those circumstances? He also discusses why pepper spray may sometimes represent a lower level of force than going hands-on, using a Taser or other options.

The discussion also acknowledges that excessive force does occur and that officers can behave improperly. Page explains how citizens can complain to a supervisor or Internal Affairs and how body-camera footage has become an important tool for determining what actually occurred during disputed encounters.

The conversation ultimately broadens beyond policing into parenting, respect for authority, student violence, peer influence and responsibility. Page argues that improving relationships between young people and law enforcement requires looking not only at police behavior, but also at what students are being taught about conflict, authority and interacting with officers.

One of the strongest themes—and probably your best promotional hook—is:

Tom Page bio:

Tom Page spent 25 years with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, serving in a wide range of assignments including patrol, traffic, field training, the Police Academy, mounted patrol, bicycle patrol, problem solving, and special events. He retired as a sergeant after leading some of Metro's most visible and complex operations.

Following his law enforcement career, he transitioned into private security, serving as Director of Security for the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC), Director of Safety and Security for the Neon Museum, and Security Representative for the WNBA's Las Vegas Aces.

About Vegas Crime Files

Las Vegas has one of the most fascinating criminal histories in America—and many of its most compelling stories have never been fully told. On Vegas Crime Files, veteran broadcaster Heidi Harris goes beyond the headlines with detectives, prosecutors, investigators, victims, and the people who were actually there. These aren't stories pulled from Google—they're firsthand accounts from the people who lived them.

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This episode of Vegas Crime Files examines the murder of Las Vegas real estate developer Ron Rudin through the firsthand account of lead investigator Phil Ramos. Rudin disappeared just before Christmas in 1994 after telling friends—and specifying in his will—that if he died under suspicious circumstances, police should investigate his fifth wife, Margaret. About a week later, his burned remains were discovered inside an antique trunk near Nelson’s Landing. He had been shot several times in the head.

Investigators uncovered extensive circumstantial and physical evidence pointing to Margaret. The antique trunk was traced directly to her business. A worker she hired to clear out the couple’s bedroom found blood-soaked carpeting and helped dispose of a mattress later confirmed to contain Ron’s blood. Blood spatter was also discovered on a glamour portrait Margaret had taken to a photo shop, claiming the stains were peanut butter and jelly. Detectives also found evidence of her affair with Yehuda Sharon, whom they believed helped move the body. Sharon had rented a van whose mileage nearly matched a round trip from the Rudin home to Nelson’s Landing, but after receiving immunity, he denied knowing anything about the murder.

Margaret fled Las Vegas when she learned she was about to be indicted and remained a fugitive for two years, becoming one of the most frequently featured female suspects in America’s Most Wanted history. A viewer eventually recognized her living under an assumed name in Boston. Police confirmed her identity through a pizza delivery, borrowed the driver’s Domino’s hat and jacket, and arrested her after she tried to hide in her shower. Her memorable response was: “It’s about that Vegas thing, isn’t it?”

The episode also explores Margaret’s highly unusual trial, questions surrounding her original attorney’s performance, and the judge’s decision to appoint two additional defense lawyers after proceedings had already begun. Despite one initial holdout, the jury convicted her, and she served approximately 20 years before being paroled. Margaret continues to insist she was innocent and later pursued a wrongful-conviction claim, but Ramos maintains that the totality of the evidence left little doubt that she murdered Ron for financial gain.

Det. Phil Ramos is a Las Vegas native and retired homicide and cold case detective with 35 years in law enforcement. Over his career, he investigated more than 300 murders, including 15 years in Homicide and Cold Case. He also spent 12 years working undercover in narcotics and intelligence, infiltrating the Cuban Mafia and other organized crime operations. A three-time Officer of the Year, Ramos had contracts placed on his life by organized crime, the Cuban Mafia, and motorcycle gangs.

Forensic Files episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61znxKSs6Jk