Late payments to artists this summer have reopened the East Coast Music Association (ECMA) situation. We go back through this story and its mix of joloew, ticket levy, co-op, Fort Langley, and Coastalgate vibes. What is a mission-driven artist organization meant to do, and how far from that are our current institutions? Stick around for that and for Will's nagging desire to say "ECMEA" by mistake, due to the British Columbia music education thing called BCMEA. Plus, double recommendations!

(0:00) Intro

(1:03) Soccer vs. jazzfest

(6:22) How many shows did Will go to?

(7:41) East Coast Music Awards payments

(12:39) ECMA CEO controversy

(43:04) Blanche's Atlantic Dividend proposal

(50:00) Will is nominated at BreakOut West?

(51:40) Recommendations

Recs:

Will -

souvenir by Knitting

Singin' to an Empty Chair by Ratboys

Carson -

in this body by Sparklmami

Momoko by Momoko Gill

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Berklee students want the school to cut it out with AI music courses, but it's looking bleak. The same venture capital interests that brought us the CEO of Suno saying no one enjoys making music, have a friend who is installed as Berklee's president. Per a recent Adam Neely video, both the student experience and the school's prestige are at risk.

In the second annual Upsample summer special together at Carson's house, we also bring up a related controversy at our own alma mater, go through our recs from the year to-date, and look at the upcoming Vancouver International Jazz Festival lineup.

(0:00) Intro

(2:23) We're talkin' Berklee

(4:48) Berklee AI course

(21:24) Suno/Spotify/Berklee ties

(40:24) CapU jazz AI poster conflict

(44:28) Ableton Extensions SDK

(48:52) Recommendations review

(53:52) 2026 jazzfest

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

The future of getting paid for our songs rests on blockchain vs. bureaucracy, as Will reports back on Australian musician Jo Loewenthal's 19-part "deep forensic investigation" of global publishing. We also touch on the launch of Subvert after opening with a dismissal of the year's biggest Upsample-core story.

(0:00) We're skipping Pysop Geese-gate

(2:35) Subvert launched

(8:55) The joloew publishing investigation

(32:17) Joel Gouveia covers the same story

(39:16) Blockchain?

(53:08) Recommendations

Recs:

• Will - watch Living for the City hosted by Hanif Abdurraqib, keeping in mind that Live Nation is producing it
• Carson - listen to My New Band Believe

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.