In this final (for now) episode of Unboxing Social and Emotional Learning, we look back on the podcast project as a whole—sharing favorite moments, discussing recurrent themes, and imagining what may come next for the pod and for SEL. Listeners who have been with us since Season 1, Episode 1 may recall some of the quotes and moments we return to, and those listening for the first time may wish to go back and start from the beginning! As we explain with the episode title, the end to one thing is often the beginning to another. “SEL,” as we have expressed time and time again across our conversations, should not be seen as the be-all-end-all for learning to be social and emotional in a complicated world.

Participants:
Melvin Chan, BSc, MA, York University
Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University
Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar
Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas
Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia
Editor: Adam Engelbrecht

References and Resources:

• McMain, E. M., Chan, M. C.-H., Edwards-Schuth, B., Molyneux, T., El Sabbagh, J., Gupta, A., & Engelbrecht, A. (Online First). Podcasting as a critical methodology: Reflections from a social and emotional learning podcast project. Cultural Studies ←→ Critical Methodologies. https://doi.org/10.1177/15327086251395813
• Montagne, A., Rousseau, C., & Gómez-Carrillo, A. (2026). The fine line between the cure and the illness: the risks of prescriptive emotionality and sociality for youth mental health. The Lancet Regional Health–Americas, 53. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(25)00321-7/fulltext
• Clark, C. T., Chrisman, A., & Lewis, S. G. (2021). Using picturebooks to teach with and against social and emotional learning. Language Arts, 98(5), 246-259. https://doi.org/10.58680/la202131212
• The Master’s Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master’s House (Audre Lorde): https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308596/the-masters-tools-will-never-dismantle-the-masters-house-by-lorde-audre/9780241339725
• Safir, S., Bagsik, M., Jaber, S., & Watson, C. M. (2026). Pedagogies of voice: Street data and the path to student agency. Corwin. https://pedagogiesofvoice.com/

In this conversation with Sharmila Miller, we learn about her experience as a drama teacher and anti-racism facilitator within education and performing arts. Sharmila shares how the process of teaching drama inherently involves engaging students with empathy, perspective taking, conflict resolution and problem solving skills. She also explains how she uses performing arts techniques for anti-racist education and facilitation. Through this fun and engaging dialogue, we are challenged to rethink formalized SEL education and reflect on the myriad ways sociality and emotionality are already embedded in the learning process.

Participants:
Adishi Gupta, MA, Independent Scholar
Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas
Sharmila Miller, Drama & English Teacher, Maple Ridge, British Columbia (SD 42)
Facilitator: Adishi Gupta
Editor: Adam Engelbrecht

References and Resources:

• Interdisciplinary Arts Academy at School District 42, British Columbia: https://www.sd42.ca/academy/interdisciplinary-arts/
• Dr. Sarah Fine, “Lessons in Powerful Learning from the Fringes”: https://www.humanrestorationproject.org/podcasts/lessons-in-powerful-learning-from-the-fringes-w-dr-sarah-fine
• Augusto Boal and Theatre of the Oppressed: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Augusto-Boal
• Different levels of racism framework: https://www.raceforward.org/what-racial-equity-0

In this episode of Unboxing SEL, Dr. Shannon Wanless and Dr. Renee Owen share insights from their article Evolving Transformative SEL with an Ecological Perspective. They trace their unique paths into SEL and explain why moving beyond individualistic approaches is essential for tackling inequity and climate injustice. Emphasizing interconnectedness, collective action, and care for the natural world, they highlight ways educators can weave this perspective into everyday practice without adding to their workload. It’s a warm, thought-provoking conversation that invites listeners to reimagine SEL as a shared journey toward personal, community, and environmental well-being.

Participants:

Jinan El Sabbagh, PhD, Oklahoma State University

Emma McMain, PhD, University of Arkansas

Tonje Molyneux, PhD, University of British Columbia

Renee Owen, EdD, Southern Oregon University

Shannon Wanless, PhD, University of PIttsburgh

Facilitator: Tonje Molyneux

Editor: Adam Engelbrecht

References and Resources:

• “Evolving Transformative Social and Emotional Learning with an Ecological Perspective” (Renee Owen, Meena Srinivasan, and Shannon Wanless): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2773233925000506
• Oregon Department of Education SEL site (dispositions): https://www.oregon.gov/ode/educator-resources/standards/sel/pages/default.aspx
• Transformative Educational Leadership: https://www.teleadership.org/
• Lisa Miller and The Spiritual Child: https://www.lisamillerphd.com/
• Rainbow Community School: https://rainbowcommunityschool.org/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21848063262&gbraid=0AAAAADRjSUXbLK8qKqepoA3EwtRXtbaTO&gclid=Cj0KCQjwndHEBhDVARIsAGh0g3Aa6JtWceMlTCe0UYSR0NPooEmXoLcgLziV_QnBScv9WxyyCe1DKIEaAjMfEALw_wcB
• SEE curriculum: https://seelearning.emory.edu/
• Sherri Mitchell and Sacred Instructions: https://www.sacredinstructions.life/
• Robin Wall Kimmerer and Indigenous Wisdom: https://www.robinwallkimmerer.com/
• David Sobel and The Holistic Educational Review: https://www.antioch.edu/faculty/david-sobel/
• Teach for Climate Justice: A Vision for Transforming Education (Tom Roderick): https://hep.gse.harvard.edu/9781682538074/teach-for-climate-justice/
• Restoring the Kinship Worldview (Wahinkpe Topa/Four Arrows and Darcia Narvaez): https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/690771/restoring-the-kinship-worldview-by-wahinkpe-topa-four-arrows/
• Richie Davidson and the Upaya Zen Center: https://www.upaya.org/about/
• The Center for Holistic Education: https://centerforholisticeducation.org/