Growth isn’t just about what we’re building, it’s also about what we’re letting go.

In this episode, Indra and Stephanie examine the hidden grief that can accompany promotions, career pivots, restructures, and identity shifts. They talk about grieving what you thought would be, survivor’s guilt in the workplace, and why ignoring emotions doesn’t make them disappear. This conversation offers language, perspective, and practical tools for moving through change without bypassing yourself, or your team.

Takeaways

• Grief can show up in unexpected ways, even during positive changes.
• The 'goo stage' represents the messy transformation process.
• Letting go of past identities is crucial for growth.
• Community plays a significant role in our emotional well-being.
• Grief is not just about loss; it can be about change and transition.
• Acknowledging grief in the workplace is essential for a healthy culture.
• Emotions are energy in motion; they need to be allowed to flow.
• Grief is not linear; it can resurface at any time.
• Building a supportive community can help navigate grief.
• Compassion for oneself is key during times of transition.

Follow Stephanie:

• Stephanie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniesimpsoncoaching/
• Stephanie’s Website: https://www.stephanie-simpson.com/
• Stephanie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stephaniesimpsoncoaching/

More from Indra and The Messy Middle Matters

• Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
• Indra’s Blog: https://peopleprocessthings.substack.com
• The Messy Middle Matters on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themessymiddlematters/
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: https://messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch https://messymiddlemerch.com

Keywords

grief, change, transformation, identity, workplace culture, emotional intelligence, goo stage, community, leadership, burnout

In this episode, Indra explores the multifaceted role of AI in our lives, emphasizing its potential as a tool for accessibility, communication, and personal growth. She discusses how AI can enhance our work, serve as a thinking partner, and help us engage with broader audiences. Indra also highlights the importance of human agency in shaping the tools we use, advocating for a thoughtful approach to technology that prioritizes clarity and dignity.

Takeaways

• AI is not about cheating; it's a reflection of our input.
• Using AI can enhance accessibility in communication.
• AI can serve as a partner in amplifying our thoughts.
• Engaging with AI is crucial for shaping the future.
• AI helps distill complex ideas into digestible formats.
• The world was not built for everyone; AI can help navigate that.
• AI can provide perspectives that enhance our understanding.
• It's important to communicate in ways that resonate with diverse audiences.
• Tools like AI are essential for scaling our efforts effectively.
• Human agency must shape the tools we use, not the other way around.

More from Indra and The Messy Middle Matters

• Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
• Indra’s Blog: https://peopleprocessthings.substack.com
• The Messy Middle Matters on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themessymiddlematters/
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: https://messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch https://messymiddlemerch.com

Keywords

AI, accessibility, communication, human agency, technology, innovation, thinking partner, future of work, systems thinking, digital tools

In this episode, Indra and Stephanie Simpson explore the concept of the 'Goo Stage,' a transformative phase in life where individuals experience discomfort and uncertainty. They discuss the importance of navigating transitions, the role of leaders in supporting their teams during these times, and the significance of creating supportive environments. Stephanie shares insights on how to acknowledge and validate feelings during the Goo Stage, emphasizing the need for community and resources to aid in personal growth. The conversation concludes with invitations for listeners to reflect on their support systems and the importance of being present in the moment.

Takeaways

• The Goo Stage represents a transformative phase in life.
• Transitions are crucial and should be navigated intentionally.
• Leaders play a vital role in supporting their teams during change.
• Creating a supportive environment is essential for growth.
• Acknowledging and validating feelings is the first step in navigating the Goo Stage.
• Community support is crucial during times of transition.
• One-size-fits-all solutions are often ineffective.
• Personal growth requires discomfort and vulnerability.
• Resources and tools should be tailored to individual needs.
• Reflection on support systems can enhance personal development.

Follow Stephanie:

• Stephanie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniesimpsoncoaching/
• Stephanie’s Website: https://www.stephanie-simpson.com/
• Stephanie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stephaniesimpsoncoaching/

More from Indra and The Messy Middle Matters

• Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
• Indra’s Blog: https://peopleprocessthings.substack.com
• The Messy Middle Matters on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themessymiddlematters/
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: https://messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch https://messymiddlemerch.com

Keywords

Goo Stage, Transition, Change Management, Leadership, Support, Personal Growth, Stress Management, Transformation, Community, Resources

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra Klavins sits down with Rachel Saslaw, product marketing director and founder of NYC’s storytelling community StoryTell, to explore the messy middle of career, purpose, and identity.

Rachel shares her journey of balancing a corporate career with a passion project, protecting her creative space from the pressures of monetization, and navigating societal expectations around hustle culture and “following your passion.” They discuss how work can serve as a fuel for life rather than a constant source of striving, and how intentionality, radical permission to change your mind, and embracing a multifaceted identity can bring clarity, freedom, and fulfillment.

Key Takeaways:

• The messy middle often means balancing meaningful work with personal passions and financial stability.
• Work does not have to be your life’s calling; it can provide fuel for a life you love outside of the office.
• Saying “not for me (right now)” is a valid, intentional approach to career and passion projects.
• Preserving your passion requires setting boundaries and resisting the commodification of personal interests.
• Community and storytelling are powerful tools for empathy, belonging, and nuanced human connection.
• Identity is multi-faceted; your job title does not define your worth or your whole self.
• Experimentation and radical permission to change your mind allow flexibility and clarity in career decisions.

Follow Rachel and StoryTell:

• Rachel Saslaw on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelsaslaw/
• Rachel’s Website: https://rachelsaslaw.com/
• StoryTell on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/storytellnyc

More on Indra and The Messy Middle Matters

• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: http://messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Indra’s Blog: http://peopleprocessthings.substack.com
• Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch http://messymiddlemerch.com

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Indra K and Megumi explore the complexities of navigating the messy middle of careers, personal growth, and entrepreneurship. Megumi shares her journey from Tokyo to Kansas City, her career pivots from marketing to acting, and ultimately to creating a community-focused wine events company. The discussion highlights the importance of creating supportive spaces for women, the art of gathering, and the lessons learned through trial and error in both personal and professional realms.

Takeaways

• Megumi's journey reflects the importance of embracing change.
• Creating spaces for women fosters community and support.
• Wine events can be a platform for empowerment and connection.
• Understanding what you don't want is as crucial as knowing what you want.
• Entrepreneurship often comes with unexpected challenges and surprises.
• The importance of intentionality in event planning and execution.
• Curiosity and playfulness enhance the experience of learning about wine.
• Networking in a supportive environment can lead to personal growth.
• Self-discovery is a continuous journey, especially in entrepreneurship.
• Building a community can provide validation and encouragement.

Useful Links

• Megumi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megumicalver/
• Megumi's Newsletter: https://merobebe.beehiiv.com/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch http://messymiddlemerch.com
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: http://messymiddlematters.com/feedback

Keywords

career pivots, entrepreneurship, women empowerment, wine events, personal growth, community building, marketing, acting, self-discovery, networking

Starting a new role can feel overwhelming, even when you know the basics—logging in, getting paid, finding the coffee. In this episode, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee go beyond standard onboarding advice to explore how to truly set yourself up for success in your first 90 days.

They discuss the importance of asking foundational questions, building your own organizational maps, decoding internal vocabulary, and taking a listening-first approach to understand culture and team dynamics. From strategic one-on-ones to creating your own “maps” of reporting structures and workflows, this episode is full of practical tips for making meaningful first impressions, establishing your brand, and navigating both in-person and remote environments.

Whether you’re joining a hyper-growth startup, a large enterprise, or a cross-functional team, this conversation equips you with tools to orient yourself, gather context, and thrive in the messy middle of a new role.

Useful Links

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Amanda Jane Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandajanelee/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

In this conversation, Amanda Jane Lee discusses the innovative use of AI in self-discovery and career guidance. She emphasizes how AI can assist individuals in identifying their strengths and preferences through targeted questioning, making the process of career exploration more efficient and personalized.

Takeaways

• AI can help identify personal strengths and preferences.
• Mind mapping software is a useful tool in self-discovery.
• Asking the right questions is crucial for self-exploration.
• AI can generate questions to guide personal discovery.
• Understanding green flags is important in career choices.
• Self-discovery can be enhanced through technology.
• AI can streamline the process of finding suitable roles.
• Personalized guidance can lead to better career decisions.
• The role of AI in career exploration is growing.
• Embracing technology can aid in personal development.

Useful Links

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Amanda Jane Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandajanelee/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

This conversation delves into the complexities of transitioning into leadership roles, emphasizing the emotional and practical challenges faced by new managers. Indra K and Laura Lillie Goodridge explore the jarring shift from individual contributor to manager, the importance of self-awareness, and the need for effective communication and feedback. They discuss the lack of support many organizations provide for new leaders and the significance of finding the right coaching and resources to navigate this transition successfully. The dialogue highlights the evolving nature of leadership in today's workplace, advocating for a more empathetic and self-aware approach to management.

Takeaways

• Transitioning to leadership is a significant emotional and practical shift.
• New managers often feel isolated from their previous peer relationships.
• Organizations frequently lack adequate support for new leaders.
• Effective communication is crucial for setting expectations and managing teams.
• Feedback should be a two-way street, involving both giving and receiving.
• Self-discovery is essential for understanding one's leadership style.
• Coaching can provide valuable external perspectives for new leaders.
• Understanding company leadership styles is vital for alignment.
• New managers should focus on fundamental skills before reshaping their identity.
• The landscape of leadership is evolving towards a more empathetic approach.

Useful Links

• Laura on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-manager-coach/
• Laura on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_manager_coach/
• Laura’s website: https://www.lauralilliecoaching.com/
• Laura’s resources for new managers: https://www.lauralilliecoaching.com/managers-resources
• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/