Zaid is a young center-left journalist (after the young center-right journo we had on last week, Jason Willick). Zaid worked as a reporter for The Intercept and as a reporter-blogger for ThinkProgress, United Republic, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, and Alternet. He’s now on Substack at “The American Saga” — subscribe!

For two clips of our convo — on what the Dems should do on immigration, and whether Ossoff and Buttigieg could be strong contenders for the presidency — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: his parents immigrating from Pakistan; born and raised outside Atlanta in Newt Gingrich country; growing up Muslim in the South; tithing and agape; starting a student magazine at UGA; Mamdani and affordability; higher taxes on the rich; universal childcare; Ossoff and “the Epstein class”; the Dems’ denialism over Kamala; identity politics killing the party; how Dems should respond to AI; data centers hiking energy bills; Waymo; Trump’s success at closing the border; asylum reform; the left crying wolf over racism; Stephen Miller the wolf; Eric Kaufmann’s Whiteshift; pushing left-racism on a racially tolerant public; Jasmine Crockett; Dem leaders cowed by activists; transqueer ideology; Bad Bunny; Israel and the Dems; foreign aid; Tom Massie; Ro Khanna; gerontocracy; Obama’s success in red states; rumors of Stacey Abrams being closeted; AOC; Warnock; Newsom’s left-wing baggage; the silo of Bluesky; Renee Good; and the indoctrination of kids on gender.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Sally Quinn on the WaPo and silent retreats, Michael Pollan on consciousness, Jeffrey Toobin on the pardon power, Derek Thompson on abundance, Matt Goodwin on the UK political earthquake, Jonah Goldberg on the state of conservatism, Tom Holland on the Christian roots of liberalism, Adrian Wooldridge on “the lost genius of liberalism,” Tiffany Jenkins on privacy, and Kathryn Paige Harden on the genetics of vice. An abundance of riches! And a lot of reading for yours truly! As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Jason is a columnist at the Washington Post who writes about law, politics, and foreign policy. He used to be an editorial writer and assistant editorial features editor for the Wall Street Journal, and before that he was a staff writer and associate editor at The American Interest.

For two clips of our convo — on whether SCOTUS has surrendered to Trump, and the failures of his own lawfare — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: growing up in liberal Palo Alto; raised by a doctor and a physics prof at Stanford; Fukuyama a formative prof and Walter Russell Mead a formative boss; conservatives mags that fell apart under Trump; the GOP primaries in 2016; Hillary’s denialism after her terrible run; Russiagate; Watergate; the politicization of DOJ; Trump suing the IRS; Comey and obstruction of justice; how Alvin Bragg and Jack Smith helped Trump; the January 6 pardons; the ICE paramilitary; the latest Epstein document dump; the power network around him, including “populist” Bannon; the SCOTUS immunity ruling; the delayed tariff ruling; Trump’s b******t “national emergencies” and the 1977 law; CECOT; Abrego Garcia and Ozturk; Biden and student loans; Jerome Powell and Lisa Cook; Gabbard in Fulton County; Thom Tillis vs Trump; the US vs NATO; Ukraine and Putin; Trump soft on China; bombing Iran and Nigeria; invading Venezuela; crypto corruption and the UAE chips deal; Jimmy Kimmel and the FCC; Ed Martin out; and Trump’s success at bullying institutions.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Zaid Jilani on the Dems, Derek Thompson on abundance, Matt Goodwin on the UK political earthquake, Kathryn Paige Harden on the genetics of vice, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy, and Michael Pollan on consciousness. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Jon and I go way back to the early days of the marriage movement and before. He’s currently a senior fellow at Brookings and a contributor editor at The Atlantic. He’s written many landmark books, including Kindly Inquisitors, The Constitution of Knowledge (which we discussed on the pod in 2021), and Cross Purposes (which we covered last year). His new essay in The Atlantic, “Yes, It’s Fascism,” is a must-read.

And this episode is, if you don’t mind me saying so, a must-listen. One of the best conversations I’ve yet had on the Dishcast. Jon is always lucid and fair and thereby chilling.

For two clips of our convo — on the glorification of violence by Trump and his officials, and the cowardice of mainstream conservatives — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: Trump smashing norms; his vile indecency; his early rallies; reveling in war crimes; suing everyone; the “mean tweets” defense; cultural degeneracy in America; the need for party gatekeeping; blood-and-soil nationalism; Plato on tyrants; Stephen Miller’s “iron laws”; the Zelensky meeting and “having no cards”; the assassination attempt on Trump; the reprehensible Randy Fine; ICE using white nationalist anthems to recruit; anonymous masked agents; the Pretti and Good killings; the racial element of ICE roundups; the Somali fraud scandal; the over-politicization of DoJ; the two legal systems under the Nazis; Carl Schmitt; the blanket pardon for all Jan 6-ers; Vance meeting with AfD; Heritage Americans; birthright citizenship; Greenland; Venezuela; Christian nationalism; evangelical loyalty to Trump; his Board of Peace; the vandalism of DOGE; Vought’s evil genius; the East Wing demolition; violent threats against moderate Republicans; the woke playing right into Trump’s hands; and fears that he will manipulate the midterms.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, Zaid Jilani on the Dems, Derek Thompson on abundance, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy, and Michael Pollan on consciousness. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Kevin spent 15 years as a writer and reporter for National Review, worked as a theater critic at The New Criterion, and had a long career in local newspapers. He’s currently the national correspondent at The Dispatch and a writer in residence at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. He’s the author of many books, including Big White Ghetto: Dead Broke, Stone-Cold Stupid, and High on Rage in the Dank Woolly Wilds of the “Real America.”

An auto-transcript is available above (just click “Transcript” while logged into Substack). For two clips of our convo — on the arc from the Tea Party to Trump, and now his Greenland travesty — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: growing up in Lubbock with working-class, adoptive parents; playing football for the worst 5A team in Texas and joking with Dubya about it; starting journalism as a teenager; Bill Buckley a big influence; working for newspapers in India; how neoliberalism lifted untold millions out of poverty; the prosperity of the ‘90s; Karl Rove and “deficits don’t matter”; quitting the GOP over Arlen Specter; joining NR in 2008; TARP and bailouts; covering the Tea Party rallies; the Constitution checking human nature; Pat Buchanan; Ross Perot; Rick Santorum; the demonization of Obama; the pathologies of working-class whites; Christian apologists of Trump; mass migration and multiculturalism; masked ICE agents; Trump and celebrity culture; the Nobel hissy fit over Greenland; the tariff insanity; the bond market; Bessent’s propaganda; right-wingers in Europe turning on Trump; Vance and Cruz bending the knee; Jan 6 and Mike Pence; MTG’s conversion; Musk’s accomplishments; Trump defunding science in higher ed; Rahm Emanuel; when Kevin was cancelled by The Atlantic; when both of us were vilified by Jeff Goldberg in a townhall; and taking Matt Stone to Bear Week in Ptown.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Jeffery Toobin on the pardon power, Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right’s future, Derek Thompson on the Dems and abundance, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy, and Michael Pollan on consciousness. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Charlie is a journalist and podcaster. From 1993 to 2016, he hosted a conservative talk show on WTMJ in Milwaukee. He was also the editor of Right Wisconsin, the editor-in-chief of The Bulwark, and a commentator on MSNBC. He recently went fully independent with his own substack, “To the Contrary” — subscribe! The author of many books, the latest was 2017’s How the Right Lost Its Mind.

An auto-transcript is available above (just click “Transcript” while logged into Substack). For two clips of our convo — on the Trump admin’s soulless response to the ICE killings, and if the GOP is starting to turn on Trump — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: growing up in a contrarian liberal home; his dad a journalist prof who ran Eugene McCarthy’s 1968 campaign in Wisconsin; Charlie converting to Catholicism in college; TS Eliot’s influence on his faith; writing his first book based on his dad’s essay against academia; getting into talk radio in the early years; the Limbaugh effect; the MSM disdain over talk radio; my early campaign for marriage equality reaching Charlie’s show; the lost culture of healthy debate; Gingrich’s contempt for the opposition; Vince Foster; Bush discrediting conservatism; the demonization of Obama; the failure of GOP gatekeepers; both parties embracing mass migration; “The Flight 93 Election”; the groups controlling the Dems; Biden empowering Trump on immigration; the Fox News fallacy; the anti-Semite card with respect to Israel and the settlements; Gaza; the war in Ukraine; the ICE killing in Minneapolis; JD’s soulless presser; the indecency of Matt Walsh and Megyn Kelly; the threats to Greenland; the persecution of Jerome Powell; civil war rhetoric; the Caribbean boats and Maduro’s ouster; our Viking foreign policy; Cardinal Dolan embracing MAGA; Pope Leo replacing Dolan; tariffs as protection money; the abuse of the pardon; ICE recruitment ramping up; and how dogs are the best people.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Kevin Williamson on the devolution of the GOP, Jeffery Toobin on the pardon power, Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right’s future, and Michael Pollan on consciousness. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Claire is an American novelist, essayist, and journalist living in Paris. She’s the editor-in-chief of The Cosmopolitan Globalist — subscribe! — and the author of many books, including There Is No Alternative: Why Margaret Thatcher Matters, and the novel Loose Lips.

An auto-transcript is available above (just click “Transcript” while logged into Substack). For two clips of our convo — on the US returning to the Monroe Doctrine via Venezuela, and if Rubio is gunning for Cuba next — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: Claire’s grandpa fleeing Nazi Germany and joining the French Foreign Legion; the new movie Nuremberg; her mom a world-class cellist; Claire raised in California; seeing me debate at Oxford; my 1988 hatchet job on Ben Sherwood; our mutual love of Thatcher and how she wielded femininity; getting the Iraq War wrong; Trump increasingly looking senile; Stephen Miller’s fascism; Michael Anton and the new National Security Strategy; debating the war in Ukraine; Russia’s threats to Europe; NATO and defense spending; the growing isolationism of Americans; conspiracy theories; AI slop; Trump’s threats over Greenland; resource extraction; the Taiwan question; nuclear proliferation and A House of Dynamite; the irrelevant Congress; the poison of the identitarian left; Tom Holland’s Dominion; Keir Starmer less popular than Prince Andrew; migrants in France; the last gasps of Macron; AfD and Reform; the tariff war; and the new McCarthyism.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Charlie Sykes on the GOP ditching conservatism, Jason Willick on trade, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right’s future, and Michael Pollan on consciousness. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Laura Field is a writer and political theorist who specializes in far-right populist intellectualism in the US. She’s currently a Scholar in Residence at American University, a Senior Advisor for the Illiberalism Studies Program at GW, and a nonresident fellow with Brookings. Her new book is Furious Minds: The Making of the MAGA New Right. We bonded over some of the right’s wackier innovations, and differed over how far the left has also slid into illiberalism.

An auto-transcript is available above (just click “Transcript” while logged into Substack). For two clips of our convo — on the New Right’s “post-constitutional moment,” and the war on the civil service — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: growing up in Alberta; losing a parent at a very young age; Plato an early inspiration; growing tired of the Straussians; the decline of religion under liberalism; Locke; Rousseau; Nietzsche; Fukuyama; the resurgence of the illiberal left and illiberal right; the Claremont Institute and Harry Jaffa; Jaffa’s extreme homophobia and hatred of divorce; Allan Bloom; Lincoln fulfilling the Founding; Hobbes; the role of virtue in a republic; Machiavelli; Michael Anton’s “Flight 93 Election”; John Eastman and “Stop the Steal”; Curtis Yarvin and The Cathedral; Adrian Vermeule’s Common Good Constitutionalism; Catholic conversion; Pope Leo; Obergefell, debating Harvey Mansfield over marriage; Woodrow Wilson’s expansion of the state; Thatcher and Reagan slimming it down; the pros and cons of technocratic experts; DOGE vs federal workers; “queer” curricula and the 1619 Project; edge-lords; Bronze Age Pervert and pagan masculinity; Fuentes and Carlson; and debating the dangers of wokeness.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Claire Berlinski on America’s retreat from global hegemony, Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, and Vivek Ramaswamy on the right’s future. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.