You don’t need time tracking to survive at $1M — but you absolutely need it to scale past $2M.

In this episode, we break down one of the most common growth ceilings in the MSP industry: the belief that “we don’t track time” is a culture win. Josh Peterson and Gary Boyle unpack why that mindset often leads to stalled margins, mispriced agreements, technician burnout, and emotional decision-making instead of operational clarity.

Gary Boyle is a Partner at Bering McKinley, and in this conversation, we explore service profitability, agreement gross profit, technician capacity, and the real economics behind scaling a managed services business. This episode challenges the idea that time tracking equals micromanagement and reframes it as leadership discipline.

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• Why MSPs stall between $1M–$3M in revenue

• The “noisy vs quiet client” profitability problem

• Agreement gross profit and why it matters

• The illusion of flat-rate pricing

• Service salary to service revenue ratio

• Capacity modeling for technicians

• Why “we’re profitable” isn’t enough

• Leadership discipline vs micromanagement

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Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyboyle/

Company Website: https://beringmckinley.com

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YouTube (Video Podcast):

https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1

Learn More About the Vision Platform:

https://beringmckinley.com/vision

Apply to Be a Guest:

https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form

In this From the Trenches episode of the BMK Vision Podcast, Josh Peterson sits down with Ray Stasieczko for an unfiltered conversation about the copier-dealer-to-MSP transition—and why so many businesses lose their way chasing relevance instead of building real value.

Ray shares hard-earned lessons from decades in the print and IT services space, challenging vendor-driven MSP models that promise easy growth but often lead to low margins, outsourced complexity, and stalled businesses. Together, Josh and Ray explore why most copier dealers only convert a small percentage of clients into managed IT customers, why outsourcing the help desk breaks the economics for many MSPs, and why clarity of intent (“why”) matters more than chasing the next trend.

This episode is a candid look at what actually works, what doesn’t, and what MSPs and copier dealers need to rethink as disruption accelerates.

• Why many MSPs get “lost on the way to relevance”

• The reality of the 3–5% copier-to-MSP conversion rate

• Vendor-driven strategy vs. business fundamentals

• Why outsourcing the front-line help desk hurts margins

• The difference between lifestyle MSPs and growth-focused firms

• Why fee-based assessments and consulting matter

• “Why comes first, how comes second” as an operating principle

• What mature MSPs do differently to protect value

Ray Stasieczko

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raystasieczko/

YouTube (Video Podcast):

https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1

Learn More About the Vision Operating System:

https://beringmckinley.com/vision

Apply to Be a Guest:

https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form

At around $5M in revenue, many MSPs run into a leadership problem that has nothing to do with effort or intelligence—and everything to do with role fit. In this episode, the BMK Vision Podcast team breaks down a real client scenario where an owner is sitting in the sales seat but doesn’t truly want sales leadership.

Josh Peterson is joined by Gary Boyle and Ryan Alter to explore why ownership does not automatically mean seat fit, why delegating tasks is not the same as owning outcomes, and how avoiding hard role decisions quietly taxes the entire business. The conversation digs into the tension between partnerships, ego, accountability, and growth—and why sales leadership is a non-optional seat at this stage of maturity.

This episode is especially relevant for MSP owners navigating multi-partner dynamics, stalled growth, or the shift from tactics to strategy.

• Why ownership does not equal seat fit

• The difference between delegating tasks and owning accountability

• Why sales leadership becomes non-optional around $5M

• How misaligned seats create friction across sales and service

• When coaching turns into avoidance

• The real cost of delaying role-fit decisions

• How leaders can surface truth without confrontation

• The role of consultants in guiding difficult ownership conversations

Josh Peterson

CEO, Bering McKinley

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshdpeterson/

Gary Boyle

Senior Partner, Bering McKinley

Ryan Alter

Founder, Silverstream AV

YouTube (Video Podcast):

https://www.youtube.com/@beringmckinleyvision?sub_confirmation=1

Learn more about the Vision Operating System:

https://beringmckinley.com/vision

Apply to be a guest on the podcast:

https://beringmckinley.com/blog#speaker-form