Is the secret to podcasting success hidden in the French market?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Sarah Toporoff, Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner, about the evolving landscape of audience growth and monetization. Sarah discusses how her team is helping publishers break podcasting out of "walled garden" platforms and into the wider web, transforming organic traffic into loyal listeners.

As she puts it:

"Your audio engineer can't be your audience developer. Like, it just doesn't work that way."

Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

Where the money is in podcasting: Why Sarah argues the true money is in the audience and why • France is a uniquely booming market for branded content.

• Breaking the walled gardens: How to reach the billions of people online who aren't currently using dedicated podcast apps.

• The "Owned, Earned, and Paid" framework: Why creators need to look beyond organic growth to reach new heights.

• The "Death of the Download": Navigating the controversy of auto-play audio and why "guaranteed listens" are a better metric.

• Professionalizing audience strategy: Moving past the "if we build it, they will come" naivete to implement real media strategy.

• Awareness vs. Performance: Understanding the spectrum between generating impressions and building a loyal following.

Sarah Toporoff is the Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner. Based in Paris, she has over a decade of experience in media innovation, having worked in journalism innovation, radio product development, and publisher partnerships. She is a self-described "audio girly" who specializes in helping publishers and brands maximize their reach through contextual content recommendation.

Episode Chapters

00:00 – Intro

01:04 – Where is the money in podcasting?

01:29 – What is Disco by Headliner?

03:27 – Breaking podcasts out of "walled gardens"

04:49 – Why audio was left behind by the web

06:33 – Case Study: Doubling Al Jazeera’s audience overnight

10:52 – The importance of paid media in a launch strategy

11:55 – The controversy of auto-play and inflated downloads

13:34 – The "booming" branded podcast culture in France

16:52 – Sarah’s journey from English teacher to legacy media

23:32 – Debunking the "If we build it, they will come" myth

26:34 – The shift toward dedicated audience growth teams

30:06 – Awareness vs. Performance: What are you actually buying?

33:15 – Why you can’t buy loyalty

38:30 – Real-world budget benchmarks for podcast growth

41:25 – Riding the video wave without losing audio's soul

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz:

• "The money is an audience."

• "Real media has strategy and budget."

• "A solid media plan is not going to fix a bad show."

• "My job is everything that happens after you hit publish."

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on PodBiz, we’re joined by Greg Wasserman, Head of Relationships at RSS.com, to break down how podcasters actually build leverage in the industry and why relationships, not just downloads, are at the core of sustainable growth.

Greg challenges the industry’s obsession with ads and sponsorships as the only path to revenue. Instead, he explains why podcasting works best when it’s treated as part of a broader business strategy, whether you’re a creator, agency, or brand. From audience growth to distribution gaps to relationship-driven ROI, Greg offers a clear framework for thinking about podcasting as a long-term asset.

As he puts it:

“You want more money? Then go focus on how do you grow your audience.”

He also emphasizes that many podcasters limit their growth by staying inside a single ecosystem rather than taking advantage of open distribution through RSS.

This episode is a practical conversation about where value is actually created in podcasting and how creators can stop leaving opportunity on the table.

• The three questions every podcaster asks: distribution, audience, money
• Why monetization should not be the starting point
• The hidden cost of limiting your show to one ecosystem
• Podcasting as a relationship-driven business tool
• Why most podcasters misunderstand ROI
• How agencies leave money on the table
• Improving as a host to grow audience trust
• Community building as a growth strategy
• Why relationships are a form of currency in podcasting
• What excites Greg most about where the industry is headed

Greg Wasserman is the Head of Relationships at RSS.com, where he leads creator and partner engagement across the podcast ecosystem. With a background in media sales, platform growth, and community building, Greg is known for connecting people, building long-term relationships, and helping podcasters think strategically about growth, distribution, and monetization.

Find Greg on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/gregwasserman/

(01:18) Introducing Greg Wasserman

(01:20) Where the money in podcasting really comes from

(02:45) Podcasting as a business versus a media company

(03:12) Rethinking monetization beyond ads

(04:56) Why being a good host matters

(05:17) Greg’s path into podcasting

(06:00) Learning podcast distribution from platforms

(06:56) The three questions podcasters always ask

(07:38) Distribution as the fastest path to audience growth

(08:13) Relationships as a career strategy

(09:18) Where agencies leave money on the table

(11:00) Improving your craft as a host

(13:27) Building creator communities at RSS.com

(15:59) Serving creators through feedback and partnerships

(16:30) What Greg would do differently starting today

(19:11) Why this is an exciting moment for podcasting

“Life is about time and relationships.”

“If you want more money, make sure you have those other 30 percent of your audience.”

“Relationships can be currency. The more conversations you have, the more opportunities appear.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on PodBiz, Andreea Coscai breaks down how creators across Europe are building audiences, reaching listeners across borders, and monetizing through community-first strategies. As the founder of Eurowaves, Marketing Lead at Tink Media, and a key voice in global creator communities, Andreea offers a grounded look at what independent podcasters need to understand about the European landscape.

As she puts it, marketing is not optional:

She also explains why connection and cultural alignment matter more than follower count:

This episode is a thoughtful, realistic look at what it takes for creators to grow in a market defined by nuance, collaboration, and diversity.

• How European creators build audiences across language and culture

• Why marketing and audience clarity matter more than scale

• Community-first growth and the rise of Eurowaves

• How Tink Media supports podcasters through realistic promo systems

• What creators misunderstand about social media and discoverability

• Sponsorship reality in smaller or emerging markets

• The role of grants, co-productions, and cross-border collaboration

• Why global thinking benefits every independent creator

Andreea is the founder and writer of Eurowaves, Marketing Lead at Tink Media, newsletter and community coordinator at EarBuds Podcast Collective, and an independent podcast producer. She works across audience development, marketing strategy, and creator support throughout Europe and beyond.

Eurowaves: https://eurowaves.substack.com/

Events: https://eurowaves.substack.com/p/top-podcasting-events

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreea-coscai/

Pod.Vision: https://pod.vision/

(03:29) Value alignment for Patreon and community support

(04:08) How Eurowaves began and why Europe needed it

(05:23) Community gaps in the European podcast space

(06:57) What podcasters get wrong about audience development

(08:54) Getting into podcasting through production and community

(13:21) Cross-platform thinking for modern creators

(14:42) Value packaging and sponsorship fit

(16:50) Local markets, local sponsors, local wins

(18:38) The fragmented but rich European ecosystem

(19:48) How grants and co-productions shape opportunity

(20:55) Storytelling across cultures

(22:24) Learning from the U.S. while building something distinct

(23:46) What Andreea would approach differently today

(27:44) What excites her most about Europe’s creator future

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.