Is the secret to podcasting success hidden in the French market?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Sarah Toporoff, Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner, about the evolving landscape of audience growth and monetization. Sarah discusses how her team is helping publishers break podcasting out of "walled garden" platforms and into the wider web, transforming organic traffic into loyal listeners.

As she puts it:

"Your audio engineer can't be your audience developer. Like, it just doesn't work that way."

Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

Where the money is in podcasting: Why Sarah argues the true money is in the audience and why • France is a uniquely booming market for branded content.

• Breaking the walled gardens: How to reach the billions of people online who aren't currently using dedicated podcast apps.

• The "Owned, Earned, and Paid" framework: Why creators need to look beyond organic growth to reach new heights.

• The "Death of the Download": Navigating the controversy of auto-play audio and why "guaranteed listens" are a better metric.

• Professionalizing audience strategy: Moving past the "if we build it, they will come" naivete to implement real media strategy.

• Awareness vs. Performance: Understanding the spectrum between generating impressions and building a loyal following.

Sarah Toporoff is the Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner. Based in Paris, she has over a decade of experience in media innovation, having worked in journalism innovation, radio product development, and publisher partnerships. She is a self-described "audio girly" who specializes in helping publishers and brands maximize their reach through contextual content recommendation.

Episode Chapters

00:00 – Intro

01:04 – Where is the money in podcasting?

01:29 – What is Disco by Headliner?

03:27 – Breaking podcasts out of "walled gardens"

04:49 – Why audio was left behind by the web

06:33 – Case Study: Doubling Al Jazeera’s audience overnight

10:52 – The importance of paid media in a launch strategy

11:55 – The controversy of auto-play and inflated downloads

13:34 – The "booming" branded podcast culture in France

16:52 – Sarah’s journey from English teacher to legacy media

23:32 – Debunking the "If we build it, they will come" myth

26:34 – The shift toward dedicated audience growth teams

30:06 – Awareness vs. Performance: What are you actually buying?

33:15 – Why you can’t buy loyalty

38:30 – Real-world budget benchmarks for podcast growth

41:25 – Riding the video wave without losing audio's soul

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz:

• "The money is an audience."

• "Real media has strategy and budget."

• "A solid media plan is not going to fix a bad show."

• "My job is everything that happens after you hit publish."

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

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