Mormon Folk Magic, Joseph Smith’s Occult Reputation & Dave Butler’s Cunning Man The hosts discuss ongoing interest in Joseph Smith’s seer stones, treasure digging, and whether these practices should be labeled “occult,” referencing questions from the FAIR Conference and Mark Ashurst-McGee’s work on Joseph as a “village seer.” Dave Butler introduces his novel series Cunning Man, co-written with Aaron Ritchie, about Hiram Woolley, a very Mormon sugar beet farmer in 1935 Utah who battles literal and figurative demons of the Great Depression using his Grandma Hetty’s documentable folk-prayer lore, alongside his adopted Navajo son Michael. They explore definitions of magic and “occult” as “hidden,” Christian grimoires like Hohman’s The Long Lost Friend, Catholic folk practices (including burying St. Joseph statues), sympathetic magic, and LDS garment folklore as both symbolic and protective, including how such beliefs appear in Mormon history and culture.

00:00 Occult Joseph Smith

02:02 FAIR Conference Questions

04:26 Cunning Man Series

06:20 Mormon Indiana Jones

10:59 American Paladin Hiram

16:23 Grimoires and Psalm Magic

17:37 Catholic Folk Practices

21:36 Defining Magic and Occult

27:40 Saint Joseph House Spell

31:44 Sympathetic Magic Explained

33:32 Magic Underwear Folklore

38:30 Garment Protection Lore

40:06 Carthage Jail Accounts

42:21 Charm Versus Blessing

43:46 Chi Rho Stand In

46:59 Decline of Magic

50:26 Cunning Man Trilogy

10:59 Bautista and Mexico

58:23 AUB and Fundamentalists

01:01:20 Future Books Ideas

01:04:29 Hofmann and Folk Magic

01:06:43 Wrap Up and Recommendations