In this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, we chat with Katrina Kennedy—consultant, facilitator, and author of the new book, Learning That Lasts: Reflection Activities for Trainers and Designers.

Katrina shares her accidental start in L&D, which began when her manager at the District Attorney’s office needed someone to train new staff for a reorganization: “Katrina, you can talk,” she was told. Over the past 28 years on her own, she discovered her passion for helping new trainers and subject matter experts (SMEs) design and facilitate powerful learning experiences.

The Monumental Shift: It’s Not About You

Katrina reflects on her journey from unknowingly “telling” to intentionally facilitating. Like many trainers, she initially had the mindset of an empty vessel ready to be filled. The monumental shift came during a conference session where she witnessed participants deeply interacting. She realized, “This is about them”.

She reinforces that the number one rule of training is “It’s not about you”. This realization is freeing for SMEs, reducing their nervousness because they know the focus isn’t entirely on their performance. Instead, the goal is to impress the participants with their own discoveries.

The Critical Failure Point: Learning Transfer

Katrina joins the host in preaching the absolute importance of learning transfer. The host notes that training often fails after the classroom because the trainer considers their job done, and the manager assumes the training worked. If the training isn’t transferred to the field, performance isn’t improved.

Katrina emphasizes that transfer success begins before the training, by ensuring the learning is aligned with organizational needs and securing buy-in from managers and participants.

Common Transfer Failures:

* Running Out of Time: Trainers pack too much content and neglect the vital time needed for reflection.

* No Support: Pushing people out the door without follow-up, supportive nudges, or an accountability partner.

The Phlebotomist Test: Practice Over Content

To shake the mental model that training is only about the transfer of information, Katrina uses a memorable story:

If you are going to have blood drawn, do you want the phlebotomist to have a lot of content knowledge, or do you want them to have practiced and reflected on what they’re doing?

The clear answer (practice!) reinforces the need to give people time to practice and receive feedback.

Katrina’s book, Learning That Lasts, is a practical reference guide with research-backed reflection activities that help ensure learning transfers to the workplace.

Key Takeaways

* Rule #1: It’s not about you: The most profound shift for a trainer is realizing the job is to facilitate their learning, not show off your knowledge.

* Transfer is a Trainer’s Responsibility: If you slack on the transfer strategy, the entire training fails because you haven’t improved performance.

* Reflection is Not an Afterthought: Time must be intentionally designed into the session for practice and reflection.

* Practice is Paramount: Use the phlebotomist test to prove that practice and reflection are superior to content volume.

Katrina Kennedy’s Book and Contact:

* Book: Learning That Lasts: Reflection Activities for Trainers and Designers

* Contact: Connect on LinkedIn or visit katrinakennedy.com.

What if the most annoying part of a long hike—a pebble in your shoe—was actually your greatest asset as a trainer?

On this episode of Lessons from Learning Leaders, we welcome Jeff Weaver—director of training at J.J. Taylor Companies for 15 years and now founder of A Pebble in Your Shoe Consulting. Jeff is sharing his philosophy (and presentation title) that challenges how we think about behavior change and learning.

Jeff’s journey started at Polk County schools and took him through Disney and Target, experiences that shaped his unique approach to L&D. He argues that to get people to change their behavior, you need a catalyst for change—something that can’t be ignored. That, he explains, is the gift of the pebble.

Tune in to discover:

* The Power of Pleasant Uncomfortableness: How to intentionally design moments that force learners to stop and fix a problem.

* The Disney First Impression: Jeff shares a brilliant training technique he learned at Disney that uses a seemingly unprepared start to create a lasting, emotional lesson on preparation.

* Marketing Your Learning: Why L&D professionals should think of training like product marketers, using branding and jingles to create cultural touchstones that stick.

* The CEO Question: Are you worried about being “too silly” in front of executives? Jeff has a perfect answer for why you should facilitate for fun and effectiveness, no matter who’s in the room.

Don’t miss Jeff’s session, “The gift of the pebble in your shoe,” at the 2026 Training Conference and Expo, where he’ll also be running the Podcasting Lab.

Key Takeaways

* Pebble = Catalyst: A “pebble in your shoe” is a metaphor for a necessary, uncomfortable catalyst that forces behavior change.

* Emotion Drives Memory: Memorable training is often emotional and action-oriented, hitting a place beyond just logic.

* Branding Works: Use advertising and marketing techniques—like jingles and catchphrases—to make core concepts un-ignorable cultural touchstones that stick long after training ends.

* Challenge Traditional L&D: Broaden your view of training beyond traditional adult learning theories to incorporate the powerful tools of entertainment and marketing.

Jeff Weaver’s Consulting:

* A Pebble in Your Shoe Consulting