Dean Spade joins Nora and Marcus for a conversation about how our relationships show up in our activism, politics, and everyday life.

Mentioned in the episode:

Love in a F*cked Up World by Dean Spade | Love in a Fucked Up World Podcast | Mutual Aid by Dean Spade | Facing Collapse Together study group | Movement Memos: Bizarre and Dangerous Utopian Ideology Has Quietly Taken Hold of Tech World | Pipsqueak | Left Bank Books | Exarcheia | Inside Exarcheia on The Guardian (2019) | Demise of a neighborhood on Politico (2023) | New Jersey ICE escape | Lime Bike Barricade in Seattle

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

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In this episode, Nora and Marcus wade into the bizarre right-wing war on empathy—where Elon Musk, JD Vance, and others claim that caring about other people is a threat to civilization itself. But beyond the absurdity, they trace how empathy has been weaponized, misunderstood, and hollowed out—from Clinton-era politics to today’s culture wars. Together, they ask: How should we show up and care in a time of polycrisis? s empathy even enough? Or do we need something deeper—like solidarity, discomfort, and the hard, daily work of being human with one another?

Mentioned in the episode:

Celebrity Imagine cringe video | Braver Angels | Pope Francis letter to Vance | Crowded Out | Toxic Empathy | Bishop Marian Budde | Guardian - Julia Carrie Wong | Tech Won’t Save Us

Follow us on Social:

Instagram | BlueSky

Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Sound Effect by freesound_community from Pixabay

Sound Effect by Universfield from Pixabay

Mentioned in the episode:

• So the No Kings March Happened. What Next? (Marcus Harrison Green, South Seattle Emerald)

• Erica Chenoweth

Follow us on Social:

https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast | https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social

*Nora and Marcus’ work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron