This episode examines religious innovation through three distinct lenses.

Philip Jones, a retired Presbyterian pastor, brings institutional honesty. He names the anxiety beneath the language of innovation: declining membership, aging volunteers, and a shrinking financial runway. From inside the church, he explains how innovation often functions as a survival strategy, and why small groups, digital formats, and community service have become central attempts to rebuild connection—sometimes with mixed results.

Mark Friedman, a Jewish author and thinker, offers a textual and historical counterweight. He argues that innovation untethered from tradition weakens religion rather than saving it. Drawing on the Torah and Talmud, he demonstrates that Judaism has always allowed for change, but only when it is justified through a deep engagement with sacred texts, rather than cultural convenience.

Van moderates the conversation from a design and systems perspective, pressing on assumptions both traditions share. He reframes innovation as a question of delivery, relevance, and meaning-making, asking whether institutions are redesigning faith itself or merely repackaging it to keep people engaged.

Together, the episode challenges the idea that growth is the right metric—and asks whether religious innovation can preserve depth without resorting to pandering.

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We envision a world where design and religion work together to spread love, empathy, and charity faster than divisiveness, selfishness, and hate. To achieve this, we aim to bring the stories of those driving this change—both big and small—into the spotlight, allowing ideas for positive transformation to spread quickly and reach those who need them most.

Nate is the Head Pastor at Red Clay Creek Presbyterian Church https://rccpc.org/

Van is a Service Designer and Illustrator, and his work can be found at https://www.vansheacreative.com/

Van invites Drew Marshall to explore the world of Islam through the lens of architecture as a living expression of belief, migration, conflict, humility, community behavior, and identity. Drew, an Islamic Studies expert and community advocate, guides us through the evolution of mosque design from Abraham and early Mecca to its global adaptations across the centuries.

The conversation delves into the lived experience of entering a mosque, exploring transitional spaces, ritual washing (wudu), light, pattern, sound, and spatial choreography that prepare a person emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually.

The episode then pivots into the “modern identity crisis” of Muslims in America. Drew speaks candidly about colonialism, wars in Muslim countries, the challenge of loving a land whose government harms your homeland, and the spiritual obligation to contribute positively anyway. He frames gratitude not as passivity, but as civic responsibility: promoting a better parking culture, cleaner roads, community contributions, and service as a form of worship.

The episode closes with a challenge: that contemporary Muslims, like all faith groups, must examine themselves through tradition without abandoning it — the concept of the mujaddid, someone who renews the faith for the times. Sacred design, in this frame, isn’t about buildings. It’s about behavior, belonging, and the everyday rituals that shape how a community is perceived and how it perceives itself.

Send us a text message letting us know what you think of this episode!

We envision a world where design and religion work together to spread love, empathy, and charity faster than divisiveness, selfishness, and hate. To achieve this, we aim to bring the stories of those driving this change—both big and small—into the spotlight, allowing ideas for positive transformation to spread quickly and reach those who need them most.

Nate is the Head Pastor at Red Clay Creek Presbyterian Church https://rccpc.org/

Van is a Service Designer and Illustrator, and his work can be found at https://www.vansheacreative.com/

This episode brings together Rev. Dr. Pamela Adams, Van, and Pastor Nate for a deep, candid conversation about what actually happens at the intersection of mental health, spirituality, accountability, and human struggle. What emerges is a picture of healing that is warm and joyful, but also grounded, gritty, and human.

Pam begins by breaking down why therapy scares people: not because therapy is dramatic, but because sitting in a room and talking about yourself is uncomfortable. And she doesn’t sugarcoat it: real healing requires letting those doors open, doing the work, facing consequences instead of blaming “God’s will,” and refusing the fantasy of a one-and-done deliverance.

One of her strongest themes: spiritual healing without maintenance collapses. Biblical stories of Jesus healing people don’t include the “follow-up appointments” — the Tuesday-after-the-miracle part. Today, professionals fill that gap. Prayer and therapy don’t compete; they stabilize each other. She urges people to pray on Sunday and see their therapist on Tuesday.

The through-line:

Healing is work. Faith and therapy are partners. You must deal with yourself before you can deal with anyone else. And the people who look the healthiest are often the ones doing the most unseen work.

Send us a text message letting us know what you think of this episode!

We envision a world where design and religion work together to spread love, empathy, and charity faster than divisiveness, selfishness, and hate. To achieve this, we aim to bring the stories of those driving this change—both big and small—into the spotlight, allowing ideas for positive transformation to spread quickly and reach those who need them most.

Nate is the Head Pastor at Red Clay Creek Presbyterian Church https://rccpc.org/

Van is a Service Designer and Illustrator, and his work can be found at https://www.vansheacreative.com/