Host Julie Harris Oliver welcomes executive coach and two-time founder Connie Liu (CEO of Tandem) to discuss humor's role in work, leadership, and coaching. Connie shares that her path to coaching began after hiring an executive coach during her transition out of her first company, valuing coaching as a place to be fully honest without "curating" for others. They explore humor as a release valve that extends emotional runway, reduces high-stakes pressure, and increases creativity—especially through improv's "yes, and" approach and design-thinking environments that normalize risk and riffing on bad ideas. Connie describes using standup comedy as a counterbalance to founder seriousness and as a way to practice levity, while both reflect on when humor is welcomed or risky at work, including for women and in highly serious roles.

00:00 Welcome and Format

00:35 Meet Connie Liu

01:09 Connie's Coaching Origin

02:31 Why Humor at Work

04:10 Standup as Counterbalance

06:09 Humor as Release Valve

07:15 Making Humor Feel Safe

09:07 Creativity and Yes And

13:40 Dog Interruption Reset

14:12 Lightening the Room Fast

16:03 Can You Teach Funny

16:23 Rule of Three Parenting

17:53 Sarcasm and Pranks Roots

18:36 Back to Executives

18:45 Personality on Calls

19:25 Creating vs Reporting

20:22 Finding the Right Balance

21:07 Sales Stories That Land

21:51 Standup Fear and Dares

22:49 Bombing and Getting Hooked

24:14 Comedy Style and Influences

24:57 Work Persona and Gender

28:41 Founder Seriousness vs Humor

30:18 Keeping Perspective at Work

31:37 Key Takeaways and Farewell

Julie Harris Oliver interviews executive leadership coach and OD consultant Brian Duggan about helping senior leaders make fewer, better decisions. Brian shares his path from theater directing to coaching and introduces research citing that senior leaders make 70–80,000 decisions per year, with up to half being low-importance or low-impact. He outlines the "Five V Role Model" stances leaders can take—Vote, Voice, Vision, Void, and Veto. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just beginning your journey, this episode is packed with insights that can transform your approach to decision-making and organizational impact.

00:00 Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud + Meet Julie & Brian

01:42 Brian's Accidental Path from Theater Director to Coach

04:06 Why Theater Skills Translate to Coaching & OD Systems Thinking

05:51 The Leadership Problem: Senior Leaders Making Too Many Decisions

07:32 McKinsey Decision Overload + Two Common Stances: Vote & Voice

11:14 The Better Shift: Leading Through Vision (and Developing People)

15:23 Reputation, Intention, and How Leaders Choose to Show Up

16:33 The Counterintuitive Stance: Intentional 'Void' and Role Boundaries

21:47 Void Needs Vision: Context Over Details, Trust Over Rumors

25:19 Matching Stances to Level: Apple Store Stories on Autonomy & Escalation

29:32 When Execs 'Voice Down': The Cost of One Comment (The Color Story)

30:44 Fixing the Process: Getting the Right Voices at the Right Time

31:46 The Two Questions: What Only I Can Do vs. What I'm Supposed to Do

32:35 Personal Burnout Story: Over-Voicing, Over-Doing, and Resentment

37:29 Making It a Shared Language: Bringing Voice In Early (and Using It)

39:17 Gen Z, Disillusionment, and Clarifying Vote vs. Voice

41:31 How to Ask for Feedback: Criteria, Context, and Engagement Survey Traps

44:40 From Work to Life Roles: Introducing the 'Five Stances' Framework

45:32 Level, Zones, Lanes: The Targeting System Behind Your Role

48:09 The Fifth V—Veto: When to Overrule (and Why It's Dangerous)

51:12 A Real Veto Scenario: Hiring Freeze, Rescinded Offers, and Hard Calls

53:43 Wrap-Up: Positive Conflict at the Top + The 'Five V Role Model'

55:49 Closing & Listener Invitation: Clarify Your Roles and Communicate Vision

In this episode of Deep Work Out Loud, Julie Harris Oliver is joined by leadership strategist and executive coach Laura London (founder of Calocedrus Partners, former McKinsey leader) for a candid, coach-style exploration of forest therapy—and why Laura believes it's a practical tool for leadership right now. They unpack what "forest therapy" means, how sensory awareness connects to nervous system regulation, and why slowing down can be harder than it sounds. Julie brings real skepticism, including a vivid story of an experience in nature that left her feeling unsafe, and Laura helps examine the protective story that followed—and what it might be costing. Along the way, Laura shares how the practice became personal through her family's experience with sensory processing disorder (SPD), and Julie describes a small experiment she's trying to bring more quiet, presence, and reset into everyday life.

00:00 Welcome to Deep Work Out Loud + Meet Laura London

01:13 Laura's Journey: From Early Work Curiosity to McKinsey & Coaching

04:28 Today's Topic: What Is Forest Therapy (and Why It Matters Now)

05:53 The Science: Senses, Nervous System Regulation & the AI Age

08:42 Laura's Personal Story: Fragility, Authenticity, and Finding Relief in Nature

10:50 Sensory Processing Disorder & the 5-4-3-2-1 Nature Practice (with Her Son)

15:01 Forest Bathing vs. Forest Therapy: Guided Walks, Principles, and Slowing Down

18:24 Julie the Skeptic: "Nature Will Try to Kill You" + A Beach Injury Story

21:22 Coaching the Reframe: Protection vs. Limitation, Awe, and Belonging in Nature

27:50 Small Experiments: Dog Walks Without Headphones + Why Quiet Isn't Wasted Time

31:31 Leadership Takeaways: Regulated Leaders, Contagious Emotions, and Practical Tips

35:31 Where to Find Laura + Final Invitation to Try Nature This Week

Find Laura HERE

Find Julie HERE