After eight seasons, countless conversations, and a whole lot of laughter, tears, unraveling, and becoming, we are releasing our final episode of the Deconstructing Mamas podcast.

This one is different.

Instead of one long conversation, we’re weaving together short, meaningful snippets from every season — tiny heartbeats that capture the essence of what this journey has been for us and for so many of you. Between each season, we share small reflections about what we’ve learned and who we’re becoming.

We hope this episode feels like a quilt of our time together — stitched with honesty, courage, tenderness, and yes… plenty of grace and space.

✨ In This Episode

• A curated montage of moments from every season
• Personal reflections from Esther and Lizz
• A look back at where we started — when very few voices were speaking openly about deconstruction, doubt, or evolving faith
• A vision for where we’re headed next
• A huge dose of gratitude for YOU — our listeners, our guests, our community

✨ Our Ongoing Work

Although the podcast is ending, our work continues — just in new forms.

Esther is pouring more deeply into her spiritual direction practice, Heard and Held, where she companions people through life transitions, soul questions, and evolving faith.
Learn more: estherjoygoetz.com/heardandheld

Lizz will be tending the Deconstructing Mamas social media space for a while, giving herself room to explore what’s next in her own unfolding faith journey.

✨ A Growing Resource Hub

When we began this podcast, there were almost no resources for people navigating faith shifts — no guides, no shared stories, no roadmap.

Now?
There is a flourishing community of voices doing beautiful, necessary work in the world of evolving faith.

We are committed to pointing you toward them.

Visit our Resource Page, which includes:

• Every guest from all eight seasons
• Books, podcasts, workshops, and guides that have shaped us
• Other teachers, writers, therapists, and spiritual companions who are doing deep, meaningful work

🌱 This page will be fully updated before the end of the year.

Explore here: deconstructingmamas.com/resources

✨ Thank You

To every guest, listener, supporter, question-asker, and quiet companion on the other side of the headphones:

You have given us grace.
You have given us space.
And you have walked with us on this beautiful, hard, sacred, and brave journey of an ever-evolving faith.

We’re forever grateful.

In this powerful and honest conversation, Esther and Liz sit down with returning guest and friend Dr. Glenn Siepert — author, artist, and creator of The What If Project. Together, they explore:

✨ What it feels like when faith unravels… again

Glenn shares the disorienting (and strangely hopeful) experience of realizing that the beliefs that once felt solid no longer hold up — and how returning to the “still small voice” inside changed everything.

✨ The difference between the loud voice of outrage and the quiet voice of intuition

We talk about the internal noise that comes from doom-scrolling, fear, and certainty… and the gentle whisper beneath it that calls us back to our truest selves.

✨ How we recreate old fundamentalism in new clothing

Why it’s so easy to transfer judgment, certainty, and arrogance into a “new container” — and how to catch ourselves when we do.

✨ Jesus, the Bible, and faith — reimagined

Glenn reflects on how his relationship with scripture and Jesus has changed: less about worshiping the unattainable, more about remembering who we truly are.

✨ Why love really is a form of resistance

We dive deep into what it means to see the humanity in someone whose beliefs feel harmful or deeply triggering — without abandoning our own boundaries or safety.

✨ Proximity, curiosity, and the slow inner work of healing

We explore how curiosity dismantles fear, why proximity changes everything, and why inner healing is the only path toward outer compassion.

This episode is for anyone who has ever felt disoriented, untethered, angry, hopeful, curious, exhausted, or wide awake.

You’re not alone. And there is another way.

In this third-to-last episode of Deconstructing Mamas, we talk about one of the biggest questions we’ve been asked over the past four years:

What does community look like now, after everything we’ve lost?

For so many of us, the communities we left behind were built around sameness — shared beliefs, shared behaviors, shared expectations. Belonging depended on staying inside the lines, and when we stepped outside them, everything changed.

In this honest conversation, we explore:

• what we were actually grieving when those communities fell apart
• how the loss showed up in our bodies, rhythms, and spiritual lives
• the tension of wanting connection again but fearing hurt or misunderstanding
• what we truly need from community now (and what we’re no longer willing to sacrifice)
• the surprising, tender ways new community has begun to grow

We talk about Esther’s spiritual direction cohort, our online book club, and the friends who love us with no agenda. And we talk about Lizz’s experience finding unexpected connection with the moms at her small-town school — community without pressure, performance, or shrinking.

If you’re in the in-between — grieving what was and unsure what comes next — this episode is for you.

There is a way forward.
It may be smaller, softer, slower…but it will be truer.

And you’ll know it by how deeply you can breathe there.

We sat down with Rev. Benjamin Cremer, writer, pastor, and creator of Into the Gray, to talk about what it looks like to hold sacred anger with open hands.

This conversation stretched from “What if I’m wrong?” to “How do we keep from passing our pain along?” We talked about retributive vs. restorative justice, how lament can heal our nervous systems, and why gentleness might just be the most radical form of resistance.

Ben reminded us that curiosity is a spiritual practice, lament is a sacred protest, and gentleness—far from weakness—is creativity at its finest.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Curiosity loosens fear. It moves us from I know you’re wrong to What if I’m wrong?
• Sacred rage has a direction. Aim your anger at harmful systems, not at the people trapped inside them.
• Lament is how we stop passing pain. Naming grief in community transforms rage into healing.
• Gentleness is courageous. It interrupts the cycle of violence and control with creativity, humor, and love.
• Correction comes after connection. Whether in parenting, faith, or community—belonging comes first.
• Tradition is living faith. Traditionalism is the dead faith of the living.
• Transformation is slow work. Small acts of connection and compassion still change the world.

WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS:

Because so many of us are carrying a mix of grief, anger, and exhaustion—and trying to figure out what to do with it.

This conversation names that ache and gives it language. It’s an invitation to move from bitterness to belonging, from outrage to imagination.

If you’ve ever felt burned by religion but still long for the sacred, if you’re learning to parent or protest differently, or if you’re craving a spirituality wide enough to hold lament and love—this one’s for you.

In this vulnerable and deeply human conversation, Esther and Lizz open up about the long, complicated process of learning to trust their emotions — after being raised in systems that taught them not to.

They talk about what it means to rebuild emotional safety after high-control religion, where feelings were often dismissed as sinful, deceptive, or dangerous. Together, they explore how learning to honor their emotions has transformed their faith, relationships, and parenting.

This episode is both tender and raw — an honest look at the messy, holy work of coming home to yourself.

Key Themes & Takeaways

Emotions Aren’t Enemies, They’re Messengers After years of hearing “faith over feeling,” both hosts are reclaiming their emotions as sacred — not something to suppress, but something to listen to.

Righteous Anger as a Force for Good Liz shares how anger has become a holy motivator for change — a muscle she’s still learning to use wisely and courageously.

Safety, Authenticity & the Nervous System They discuss the toll of living in constant spiritual and emotional high alert — and what happens when the body finally realizes it was never truly safe.

From Faking It to Feeling It Liz’s story of exhaustion from “faking it” in faith spaces resonates with so many listeners who’ve masked their true selves to belong.

Learning to Feel Safe With Ourselves Esther shares how her own healing journey has brought her to a surprising place: genuine safety in her own presence — no longer fearing the God who was always “watching,” but resting in love itself.

Reclaiming the “Too Much” Self Together they celebrate the parts of themselves once labeled “too emotional,” “too intense,” or “too much.” As Esther says, “I’m not someone to hide — I’m someone to honor.”

Why This Episode Matters

If you were ever told your emotions were untrustworthy, that your heart was deceitful, or that safety could only be found outside yourself — this episode will meet you right where you are.

Esther and Liz remind us that feelings are not flaws. They are sacred signals that lead us toward wholeness, self-trust, and the kind of peace that can’t be forced.

Licensed psychologist and author Dr. Camden Morgante joins us to explore the “middle path” from DBT and how it reshapes faith, nervous-system healing, sexuality, and parenting after high-control religion. We talk about spiritual bypassing versus true healing, pendulation in EMDR, setting wise boundaries, and cultivating a values-based sexual ethic. The middle path costs something. It also grows deep roots.

In this episode you’ll hear about

• What “walking the middle path” means and why both-and thinking is essential in deconstruction
• Signs your healing is taking hold: cognitive flexibility, compassion, curiosity, less shame
• Connection-based parenting and becoming a safe place for our kids
• Boundaries that honor your body when rooms feel polarizing
• Spiritual bypassing vs. embodied, grief-honoring faith
• EMDR’s pendulation and widening the window of tolerance
• Building a values-based sexual ethic after purity culture
• Letting healing be slow, playful, and non-linear

About our guest
Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed psychologist, coach, speaker, and author of Recovering from Purity Culture. She writes the Substack Walking the Middle Path, helping readers practice both-and thinking in faith and life. She lives in Knoxville, TN with her family.

Connect with Dr. Camden

• Website: drcamden.com
• Substack: https://drcamden.substack.com/
• Socials: @drcamden
• Book: Recovering from Purity Culture

In this week’s episode, Lizz and Esther talk about the in-between—that blurry stretch between certainty and freedom. We talk about control and compassion, about nervous systems that don’t need theology as much as safety, and about finding community outside the old walls of church.

We don’t have tidy answers (we’ve tried those before).

But we do have a few anchors for the fog.

Anchors for the In-Between

When the old ways of praying, believing, or belonging don’t work anymore—start here:

• Tree time. Sit under one. Lean against it. Let your breath match its calm.
• Look up. Sky therapy. A reminder you’re part of something vast and kind.
• Cozy is sacred. Blankets, warm mugs, soft clothes—small acts of self-compassion that retrain your body to feel safe again.
• Medicine isn’t weakness. Sometimes your nervous system needs help to unclench. That’s healing, not failure.
• Rest ≠ avoidance. Rest is recovery. Avoidance is fear. The difference is compassion.

A Few Things We Said (and Meant)

“God isn’t controlling the universe like a puppet show. Love is still here, and it looks like presence.”
“Your body isn’t broken—it’s responding wisely to what’s been too much.”
“Use your low beams in the fog. Slow is holy.”

If You’re Here Right Now

If you’re not sure what you believe, or where you belong, or if any of this still counts as faith—welcome.

You’re not alone.
The fog is temporary.

And even here, you’re being held by something softer, wider, and more loving than fear ever was.

We sat down with Shelly Robinson, founder of Raising Yourself, for a conversation about parenting on two levels at once. It’s packed with wisdom, humor, humility, and practical tools for those messy moments when your nervous system wants to hijack the show.

👇 Here’s what you’ll find inside 👇

Certified wellness coach and Raising Yourself founder Shelly Robinson returns to talk about parenting the child in front of us and the one still healing inside of us—inner-child work, humility, co-regulation, boundaries, hormones, rest, and why compassionate presence often beats any script.

Sometimes the hardest part of parenting is caring for two children at once — the one in front of us, and the one still healing inside us. In this rich conversation, Shelly Robinson shares how a single “record-scratch” moment shifted her away from fear-based faith and toward reparenting, and how that choice keeps shaping her teens-and-tweens season. We get practical about nervous-system tools in the heat of the moment (“I am safe,” “I want to feel good on the other side of this”), the slow work of tending what gets stirred at each developmental stage, and how sleep, movement, friendship, and boundaries change the energy we bring to our kids. We also name the role of perimenopause, chronic pain, and doomscrolling and why “no wonder” and “that’s fair” are underrated phrases of compassion.

You can find Shelly in these spaces:

www.shellyrobinson.com

Helping Parents Raise Themselves - Raising Yourself
Explore Shelly Robinson's unique approach to Reparenting, Gentle and Conscious Parenting. Empower your family journey with insightful resources, expert guidance, and transformative parenting tools. Join the Raising Yourself movement for transformative parenting insights and nurturing a compassionate parenting culture.

Instagram: @raisingyourself

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