All Esme wanted to do was pay homage to one of her favorite flowers. Unfortunately, Marcus had to go and ruin it with some inappropriate giggling just because the name of the flower sounds a little bit like a certain defining aspect of the male anatomy. It was childish and disrespectful and Marcus apologized profusely for it . . . every time Esme mentioned the flower’s name.

Marcus then took a moment to celebrate the 84th birthday of legendary singer/songwriter Taj Mahal. Esme demonstrated far more patience and maturity than Marcus was capable of during her segment, even when he said words like “pianist” and “Ry Cooder.”

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Have you ever felt like you’ve changed so much you barely recognize yourself? If so, you might be experiencing an identity crisis. Identity crises are pretty common, but they might be an indicator that you could benefit from some professional medical assistance.

In this episode, Marcus and Esme discuss the concept of identity and why having a strong, continuous sense of identity is important to our mental health and well-being. They share their own experiences navigating identity crises and the types of interventions they found most helpful (hint: it rhymes with “sherapy”). They also identify additional activities people can try if they feel like they are losing (or have lost) their sense of identity.

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Sources for this episode include:

• “Identity.” Psychology Today, Sussex Publishers, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/identity.

• Korfmacher, Carsten. “Personal Identity.” Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, https://iep.utm.edu/person-i/
• Olson, Eric T. “Personal Identity.” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, edited by Edward N. Zalta, 20 Aug. 2002, substantive revision 30 June 2023, https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal.

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In honor of Mother’s Day and his dad’s birthday, Marcus shares some fond remembrances of his parents. It’s an important reminder that we all end up talking about the people we love in therapy. It’s only natural, because they’re usually the ones who have made the biggest impacts on our lives. Life is complicated that way. But, if we’re lucky, we also have a lot of uncomplicated memories of those people that make us smile and remind us how fortunate we are to have had them in our lives.

Marcus also takes a moment to reassure his audience that he and his daughter will be doing their part to make sure Esme has a very special Mother’s Day. She’s really freaking good at being a mom, so they’re happy to do it. He also pushes back on those fathers who opt out of the big day by saying, “She’s not my mother.” Maybe so, but if you’re in a relationship with your kids’ mother, or if your kids are too young to handle things themselves, you might consider doing something nice for her anyway. Chances are, she deserves it. So, get off the couch, Gerald!

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In this episode, Marcus and Esme ask a very important question: can’t we be optimistic about the future AND do something about the man-eating tiger that’s stalking us?

It’s a metaphorical tiger, but it’s an important question, nonetheless.

Marcus and Esme continue their exploration of bottom-up thinking (a cognitive style more prevalent among neurodivergent people) and top-down thinking (a cognitive style more prevalent among neurotypical people).

They begin by taking some time to reassure their top-down thinking listeners that they are loved and that no one at Crazy Together Industries thinks they are monsters. They then explore why American society and corporate culture are so heavily biased towards top-down thinking and management models. Specifically, they reveal the links between top-down thinking and optimism bias, and discuss how one sweaty, annoying economist in the 1970s created a new model for corporate governance that supercharged the dominance of top-down models in the workplace.

Marcus and Esme then close the episode by affirming that, yes, we can balance our tendency towards unrealistic optimism and deal with the many metaphorical tigers in our midst. However, they caution that it will only work if we can figure out how to balance the influence of our top-down and bottom-up thinkers.

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Sources for this episode include:

• McCann, Sam. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Thinking: Why Autistic Brains Process the World Differently.” Green Coast Counseling, 2026, https://www.greencoastcounseling.com/green-coast-counseling-therapy-blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up-thinking-why-autistic-brains-process-the-world-differently.

• Lee, Crystal I. “Bottom-Up Thinking and Autism: A Different Way of Processing the World.” LA Concierge Psychologist, 2020, https://laconciergepsychologist.com/blog/bottom-up-thinking-and-autism.
• Blackmore, Laura. “Top-Down Vs Bottom-Up Approach In Management: Key Differences.” Cascade, 17 Mar. 2025, https://www.cascade.app/blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up.
• Josephs, Leslie, and Thomas Franck. “Boeing Survey Showed Employees Felt Pressure from Managers on Safety Approvals.” CNBC, 20 Oct. 2019, updated 21 Oct. 2019, https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/20/boeing-survey-shows-safety-workers-felt-pressure-from-managers-report.html.
• Singh, Laura, et al. “The Effect of Optimistic Expectancies on Attention Bias: Neural and Behavioral Correlates.” Scientific Reports, vol. 10, article no. 6495, 2020, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-61440-1.
• Sharot, Tali. “The Optimism Bias.” Current Biology, vol. 21, no. 23, 6 Dec. 2011, pp. R941–R945. ScienceDirect, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982211011912.
• Suster, Mark. “The Benefits of Top-Down Thinking & Why It Is Critical to Entrepreneurs.” Both Sides of the Table, 14 July 2010, https://bothsidesofthetable.com/the-benefits-of-top-down-thinking-why-it-is-critical-to-entrepreneurs-bec7789659a7.

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Marcus reveals that he used to be a pretty big fan of post-apocalyptic movies. They were a lot more fun in his youth, when he could more easily ignore the many real-world fears and anxieties that were the constant sub-text of the genre (e.g., nuclear holocaust, fossil fuel scarcity, climate change, etc.). The movies were fun, and there was always a glimmer of hope in each one. For example, the Road Warrior reassured us that quality leather goods and hair products will remain in abundance in the future. And Waterworld aptly demonstrated that Kevin Costner can not only survive making a really bad post-apocalyptic movie, but he can also still convince people to give him millions of dollars to make another really bad post-apocalyptic movie just a few years later.

Marcus and Esme then discuss how it became more difficult for them to enjoy the genre as they entered adulthood and the underlying fears became a little more real for them.

Marcus then reveals why he has been thinking about these movies recently, and how they tie in to a sad scene he observed while taking a walk one day. But! He and Esme then close on a high note by discussing actions we can all take to make this world a little less apocalyptic.

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This is the episode Marcus has been dying to make for a long time now (at least three weeks). Marcus and Esme discuss bottom-up and top-down processing: two different thinking styles that influence how people take in information and make sense of the world around them. Even though most people are capable of both styles, neurodivergent people are more likely to engage in bottom-up processing, while neurotypical people are more likely to employ a top-down approach. At first glance, it might appear the differences in the two styles are a matter of personal preference. But Marcus and Esme take a deeper dive to explore how these differences impact communications between neurodivergent and neurotypical people, and contribute to some of the biases and misconceptions about neurodivergent students and workers.

They also discuss the benefits of bottom-up thinking, and describe their experiences (some successful, some not) trying to position these benefits to their employers and coworkers. And, because this is top-down world, they share practical recommendations for developing skills across both thinking types.

Be sure to come back next week for Part 2: Saving top-down thinkers from themselves. Marcus and Esme will discuss the societal impacts of top-down thinking and its relation to both confirmation and optimism bias. They’ll also make the case for a world that values both thinking styles, and consider what it would take to enable such a world.

Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com

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Sources for this episode include:

• McCann, Sam. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Thinking: Why Autistic Brains Process the World Differently.” Green Coast Counseling, 2026, https://www.greencoastcounseling.com/green-coast-counseling-therapy-blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up-thinking-why-autistic-brains-process-the-world-differently.

• Lee, Crystal I. “Bottom-Up Thinking and Autism: A Different Way of Processing the World.” LA Concierge Psychologist, 2020, https://laconciergepsychologist.com/blog/bottom-up-thinking-and-autism.
• Main, Paul. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Processing: How Learners Think.” Structural Learning, 2026, https://www.structural-learning.com/post/top-down-processing-and-bottom-up-processing.

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As a follow-up to the “Very Special and Horrifying Announcement” released earlier this week Esme provides some much needed perspective. According to her, there’s a slight possibility that Marcus was misrepresenting the immediate danger to Crazy Together studios and the family as a whole. It turns out, the walls of their house might not be teeming with bats. That said, there’s no way to tell exactly what was crawling around behind the walls that night, and she is unable to disprove the possibility of interdimensional demons.

Esme then provides a quick update of her gardening/dopamine management wins. Then, she and Marcus discuss why the world needs a little more Elisabeth Shue.

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Something is lurking within the walls of the O'Kayvius household. Neither Marcus or Esme has spotted the beast yet, but they have heard it's frantic scratching. While Esme isn't prepared to hazard a guess as to the genus or species of their wall-dwelling intruder, Marcus is almost certain it's a bat (but he's also not willing to rule out the possibility of an interdimensional traveller with nefarious intent). The problem is, the scratchy tresspasser is slowly making its way through the walls to the basement, where there are multiple egress points for the creature to emerge and take over the O'Kayvius's recording space. As a consequence, the Crazy Together podcast will be going on a brief hiatus until the appropriate pest removal experts can be brought in to reclaim the space, ethically displace the offending creature, and, if necessary, exercise any offending demons. May God have mercy on us all.