How do you build a recruitment agency that not only scales but survives the founder’s eventual exit? On this episode of Carrot & Stick, host Derry Holt dives deep with Sam Crisp, the former founder of the highly successful SaaS recruitment agency, Arama. Sam shares his explosive journey of growing a business to 60 people and then making the strategic decision to step away. The discussion tackles the critical mistakes in early-stage scaling, the hidden dangers of the 'shiny client' syndrome, and why process, systems, and data integrity are the true architecture of long-term success.Discover the framework Sam now uses at his new consultancy, Axonas, to optimize internal talent teams—lessons learned directly from a decade on the front line.

Martin Doig and Robbie Sturgess, founders of Verto People, join Derry Holt to explain how their 99% perm agency not only survived a pandemic launch but rapidly scaled to 38 employees by prioritizing relentless daily Business Development (BD) over fleeting contract trends.They share their controversial stance on cold calling, detail their data-driven hiring methodology, and unpack the crucial lessons learned from scaling too fast into unfamiliar markets like Germany.Key Takeaways:- "Cold Calling is alive": The controversial view that BD must be done every day, non-negotiable.- The Data-Driven Hire: Using psychometrics to vet recruiters for sales aptitude, resulting in an 80%+ success rate.- Scaling Lessons: Why they intentionally pulled out of the German market and software niches to focus resources entirely on explosive US engineering growth.- The 8-Touch Rule: How Verto ensures success by following a highly targeted, multi-touch BD process for every single candidate.

Derry Holt talks with recruitment ops expert Saeed Bhor about the common operational mistakes agencies make. They cover the crucial difference between performance and recruitment data, why "process over tech" is his mantra, how to navigate the crowded Rectech market, and what to look for in a consultant. An episode packed with practical advice for improving agency efficiency.