Dr. Debra Lieberman is a Professor of Psychology at the University of Miami, co-director of the Evolution and Human Behaviour Laboratory, and Editor-in-Chief of the journal Evolution and Human Behaviour. She holds a BS in Biochemistry from SUNY Binghamton and a PhD in Psychology from UC Santa Barbara's Centre for Evolutionary Psychology, where she trained under field founders Leda Cosmides and John Tooby. Her landmark research on human kin detection has been published in Nature, PNAS, Psychological Review, and Psychological Science, and her book Objection: Disgust, Morality, and the Law (Oxford University Press) examines how the emotion of disgust shapes our legal systems. She helps people understand the evolved mental programs that drive our emotions, relationships, and moral judgements through grounded, research-driven insights.

In this episode, you'll learn:

1. How your brain uses childhood cues to identify siblings - and why step-siblings trigger different levels of closeness depending on when they entered the family

2. The evolved purpose of gratitude and anger as tools for building friendships and signalling your social value - including why bullies and narcissists bypass gratitude entirely

3. Why social media exploits your evolved need for recognition and validation - and the specific "internal diagnostic check" you can run before opening the app

4. The three functions of disgust - food, contact, and sex - and how disgust gets weaponised in morality, law, and coalitional politics

5. How your mate preferences are shaped by early developmental templates - and why someone can tick every box on paper but still feel wrong

6. What evolutionary psychology reveals about sexuality, gender identity, and the biological variation behind human sexual development

This conversation features real clinical examples of how evolutionary psychology has helped people understand family dynamics, alongside practical insights into navigating social media and modern dating.

Disclaimer: This episode discusses topics including sexuality, gender identity, self-harm (in a clinical research context), and evolutionary perspectives on human behaviour. The views expressed reflect the guest's academic research and personal perspectives and should not be taken as medical, psychological, or legal advice. Listener discretion is advised.

If you enjoyed this episode, you might enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMebuClQRf0_uXZRSNrXYQ9Wgp-Zk-0yk

Chapters

00:00:00 Intro, Debra Lieberman background & evolutionary psychology overview

00:05:06 Nature vs nurture, kinship cues & step-sibling dynamics

00:18:14 Social media shame, uncertainty & coalitional psychology

00:36:30 Gratitude, anger & social value signals

00:43:42 Narcissism, exploitation & can people change?

00:49:47 Trans development, sexuality variation & coalition targeting

01:00:33 Disgust: food, touch, sex, moral disgust & law

01:13:54 Dating apps, mate preferences & attraction templates

01:26:26 Closing, Lieberman Labs & final outro

***LINKS***

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Dr. Debra Lieberman (University of Miami profile): https://people.miami.edu/profile/debra@miami.edu

Center for Evolutionary Psychology (UC Santa Barbara): https://www.cep.ucsb.edu/

Jonathan Haidt - "The Anxious Generation": https://www.anxiousgeneration.com/book

Joe Navarro - "Dangerous Personalities" (Amazon): https://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Personalities-Profiler-Identify-Yourself/dp/1623361923

Debra Lieberman & Carlton Patrick - "Objection: Disgust, Morality, and the Law" (Amazon): https://www.amazon.com/Objection-Disgust-Morality-Debra-Lieberman/dp/0190491299

If you're a podcaster navigating interviews with high-status guests, a creator struggling with imposter syndrome, or anyone trying to balance confidence with authenticity - this solo episode will help you understand the invisible power dynamics that shape how you show up in professional relationships.

I reflect on the "The Podcast Mentee Phenomenon" after watching billionaire entrepreneur Alex Hormozi interview personal development legend Tony Robbins. This roadcast vlog - filmed during a drive and walk through Grizedale Forest - explores the tension between wanting to project confidence and the value of showing up authentically nervous, drawing from my own experiences interviewing world champions and high-performers while managing my insecurities.

In this episode, you'll discover:

Why seeing a confident high-performer like Alex Hormozi look nervous revealed something valuable about status dynamics and authenticity

The difference between wanting to learn from someone and being intimidated by them - and how I'm learning to strike that balance in mentor-mentee relationships

How physical presence compounds perceived status hierarchies, creating a "Russian doll effect" that amplifies power imbalances (from Tony Robbins towering over Alex to Chris Williamson next to Chris Bumstead)

Why audiences respond more to vulnerability than confidence - and what that means for how you should prepare for high-stakes conversations

Practical techniques I use to manage pre-interview nerves, including my "who the fuck I am" confidence ritual and breath work protocols

The middle path approach to showing up in professional encounters - oscillating between confidence and nervousness rather than forcing either extreme

Why resisting small discomforts outside your comfort zone (like filming yourself walking past strangers) prevents the growth you're seeking in bigger areas of your life

This reflection includes examples from my interviews with HYROX world champion Alexander Ronchovich and my appearance on the Let's Talk Attachment podcast, where my vulnerable approach to discussing anxious attachment created unexpected audience connection.

Chapters

00:00:00 Trailer Intro: What Alex Hormozi Taught Me About Vulnerability & The Podcast Mentee Phenomenon

00:00:50 Introduction En Route To Grizedale Forest

00:01:49 My Thoughts On The Tony Robbins & Alex Hormozi Interview

00:08:47 Beginning Of Woodland Trail Walk: Growth, Exposure & Discomfort

00:11:38 Tony Robbins & Alex Hormozi The Mentor Mentee Dynamic, Status & Respect

00:14:01 The Podcast Mentee Phenomenon

00:16:03 What Alex Hormozi Taught Me About Vulnerability

00:17:20 How I Interview Big Guests Without Shrinking

00:20:24 My Conclusion/Insight

00:21:49 Close

If you enjoyed this episode you will enjoy these:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMebuClQRf09d4cM9qYOC3I0X-PLxHWLO

***LINKS***

Tony Robbins & Alex Hormozi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz-ymFOhBAE&t=120s&pp=ygUZdG9ueSByb2JiaW5zIGFsZXggaG9ybW96aQ%3D%3D

Can Breathwork Help Us Achieve Our Goals? | Ciaran Avitabile | Awaken Out Of Context Podcast | Ep 74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4UqPhCihFQ

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If you're a business owner who knows what to do but can't seem to do it, someone struggling with procrastination on the things that matter most, or a coach or creator battling self-doubt and fear of judgment - this conversation will give you practical tools to understand what's actually blocking you and how to shift it.

Jack Tipper is an NLP Master Practitioner and business mindset coach who helps coaches and entrepreneurs break through subconscious blockers that keep them stuck. After years of struggling with anxiety, people-pleasing, and needing external validation, Jack discovered neuro-linguistic programming and rebuilt his own identity from the inside out. Through his Limitless coaching program, he helps clients close the gap between where they are and where they want to be - not through motivation, but by rewiring the beliefs that are running the show.

In this episode, you'll learn:

-Why procrastination isn't a laziness or time management issue - it's a symptom of deeper fears including fear of failure, judgment, and even fear of success

-What NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) actually is and how your internal language shapes your identity, emotions, and external reality

-How to spot subconscious blockers in high performers - the telltale signs someone is standing in their own way, even when they have the strategy and knowledge to succeed

-Why "just do it" advice fails most people and what actually works - shifting your perspective first so the action becomes 100x easier

-The courage to be disliked - why letting go of other people's opinions is one of the most powerful things you can do for your business and content

-How micro decisions like putting the pasta packet in the bin build a chain reaction of discipline that bleeds into bigger actions

-Why inaction between coaching sessions destroys self-trust and how the "continual push" is the prerequisite for lasting transformation

This conversation includes a live coaching moment where Jack identifies a limiting belief in real time - and the uncomfortable truth about why some clients don't get results.

Chapters

00:00:00 Trailer

00:00:49 Welcome, Background & Avoiding Clichés

00:07:29 Beliefs & Identity Beneath Positive Thinking

00:15:26 NLP & Why We Procrastinate

00:28:10 Client Results & Self-Belief (Sophie Jones)

00:34:24 Talent vs Discipline & Personal Brand in the AI Era

00:41:40 Courage to Be Disliked, ‘Cringe’ Post & Live Coaching

00:56:03 Pre-Breakthrough Signs & Drinking Choices

01:05:23 When Coaching Stalls: Fear, Doubt & Inaction

01:09:27 90-Second Message: Awareness, Basics & Next Step

01:13:08 Action Over Entertainment & Micro-Wins

01:18:04 Where to Find Jack & Outro

If you enjoyed this episode you will enjoy these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j4vnr_Xa3k&list=PLMebuClQRf08P0UXfiilUCQA9YN8m951D

***LINKS***

Jack Tipper Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jacktipper_coach/

Jack Tipper LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-tipper-b46a3a117/

Sophie Jones Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/soph.jones__/

NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) - Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

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Awaken Out Of Context Podcast (YouTube & Podcast Links):

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Follow Me On Instagram (@awakenoutofjason):

https://bit.ly/3RAkKQj