After personal circumstances launched Pastor Hannah Horst into the world of foster care, she now shares her expertise in fostering and adoption with churches, pitching ways for them to help solve the foster care crisis by supporting families that step into fostering. Our conversation is inspired by her experiences along with relational wisdom from one of her favorite books—Why Don’t We Listen Better? Communicating and Connecting in Relationships by James C. Petersen.

Resources Mentioned & Affiliate Links:**Why Don’t We Listen Better by James C. PetersenGet Started with Foster Care in Iowa

*Hannah is a co-pastor/church planter of Emmaus Church in Des Moines, IA. She also serves as the Director of Foster and Adoption Ministry for the Iowa Ministry Network of the Assemblies of God with a focus on mobilizing churches to reach the foster and adoptive families in their community.

Ministry moves at the speed of relationships.

Ten years into his church planting journey, Oscar Perez* talks with me about a leadership philosophy that is informed by the concept of “horizontal leadership,” the opposite of hierarchy. Our conversation is inspired by Gary Hamel’s The Future of Management, published by the Harvard Business Review. A lot of times, marketplace leadership books don’t transfer well to church leadership, but Oscar makes a compelling argument that horizontal and collaborative leadership can lead to healthier churches, ministry, and more flourishing in the Kingdom of God.

Resources Mentioned & Affiliate Links:**The Future of Management by Gary Hamel

*Oscar is the lead pastor and church planter of VividLife church in Plano, Texas. He also coaches pastors with Thriving in Ministry. Follow him on FB and IG.

“My growing love for the clowns in Rome made me desire to clown around a little myself and to speak about such foolish things as being alone, treasuring emptiness, standing naked before God, and simply seeing things for what they are. I came to feel that in this full, imposing, venerable, and busy city there must be a very deep desire to live out the other side of our being, the side that wants to play, dance, smile, and do many other useless things." -Henri Nouwen

On this episode, my guest Rebecca Johnston* talks about making the adjustment to pastoring solo during a crisis in her family. When trouble hits, we all need to remember what is most important and return to the grounding and sometimes “foolish” practices that help us stay anchored in the life of faith. Our discussion of Henri Nouwen’s book Clowning in Rome: Reflections on Solitude, Celibacy, Prayer and Contemplation provided a great frame for our conversation.

01:30 Planting Microchurches

12:30 What is “dinner church”?

17:20 Pastoring through a spouse’s mental health crisis

27:29 About Henri Nouwen and Clowning in Rome

31:45 Four “clown-like elements for the spiritual life.

33:00 What does celibacy as “embracing emptiness” mean for single and married folks?

34:45 How celibacy teaches the church about God’s nature.

Resources Mentioned & Affiliate Links:**Clowning in Rome: Reflections on Solitude, Celibacy, Prayer and Contemplation

*Rebecca is an intentionally co-vocational church pastor, ordained minister, grad student, mom of two, and proud midwesterner. You can follow her house-church renovations on IG.