In this deeply reflective and practical WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna welcomes Randy Conley, Vice President and Trust Practice Leader at The Ken Blanchard Companies, into a conversation that moves beyond trust as a concept and into trust as a relational, moral, and courageous practice.

Together, they explore a reality many leaders experience but few name: trust is often broken not by malice, but by silence, misaligned expectations, and unresolved wounds. At the heart of rebuilding trust, Randy and Rob surface a powerful and often overlooked leadership discipline—forgiveness.

In a cultural moment marked by polarization, cancellation, and quick judgments, this episode challenges leaders to consider a different path. One grounded in humility, confession, and the willingness to acknowledge brokenness, not as weakness, but as the starting point for wholeness. Randy reframes forgiveness as a personal choice rather than a transactional outcome, reminding leaders that unforgiveness quietly erodes the very trust they hope to protect.

The conversation also dives into the real-world complexity of leadership: trust dilemmas, competing loyalties, unspoken expectations, and the tension between accountability and compassion. Rather than offering simplistic answers, Randy offers grounded wisdom, research-backed insight, and practical behaviors leaders can begin applying immediately.

This episode ultimately invites leaders to ask a deeper question: Is it possible to move toward wholeness—personally, relationally, or organizationally—without forgiveness? And if trust always requires risk, are we willing to go first?

1. Forgiveness and Vulnerability Are Core Leadership Choices Trust cannot be rebuilt without forgiveness, and forgiveness always requires vulnerability. Leaders do not wait for certainty, acknowledgment, or apology—they choose courage, go first, and create space for trust to begin again.
2. Trust Grows Through Clarity, Not Assumptions Many breaches of trust are rooted in unspoken expectations rather than intentional harm. Healthy leaders make the implicit explicit, communicate early when commitments change, and practice dependability by doing what they say they will do.
3. Trust Is Sustained Through Consistent Behavior Over Time Trust is not a destination but a journey shaped by daily actions. Moments of forgiveness matter, but trust is maintained through ownership, follow-through, and reliability—especially when the path forward is complex.
4. Wholeness Emerges When Leaders Name Brokenness Honestly Leaders do not lead from perfection but from humility. Confessing cultures—where mistakes are acknowledged and learned from—create healthier organizations and transform cracks into pathways for growth, restoration, and trust.

In this episode of The WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Jeff Schiefelbein, managing partner of Undivided Life, for a courageous conversation about what it truly means to live and lead without fragmentation. Together they unpack why so many leaders feel divided between who they are and who they think they must be to succeed—and what it costs them, their families, and their organizations.

Jeff shares candid stories about integrating faith, family, and vocation, including the moment an ordinary phone call about his miniature donkeys awakened a colleague to the weight of her own divided life. From fears of looking weak, to cultural narratives that glorify “my truth,” to workplaces that unintentionally reward pretending—this conversation goes straight to the heart of the human condition.

Rob and Jeff explore why leaders long for wholeness but struggle to live it, why calling is always communal, and why transformation cannot happen in isolation. They challenge the myth of the “self-made” leader and offer a compelling vision for integrated, human-centered leadership—leadership formed through real relationships, honest self-awareness, and shared development across the people we actually do life with.

Most leaders know instantly that “wholeness” is right, but fear looking weak, uncommitted, or different. Fear—not lack of desire—is the real barrier.

When leaders fake strengths, mute their values, or hide their commitments at home, they advance under false pretenses—and eventually feel trapped by the very role they earned.

Jeff: “Everywhere I go, the more I show up as me—not who the moment wants me to be—the more people thank me for it.” Authenticity isn’t performance; it’s presence.

Contrary to the “live your truth” narrative, calling unfolds with the people who share our lives. The myth of the isolated, self-directed leader is both naïve and harmful.

Breakthrough performance happens when organizations unlock individual potential with coaching, trust, and relational development—not just metrics or quarterly targets.

Faith, family, self-awareness, and leadership aren’t separate lanes. Integrated leaders take wiser risks, steward energy better, and create environments where others can thrive.

In this powerful conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna and Ron Carucci dive into the hidden forces that shape honesty, trust, and character inside organizations. Ron—co-founder of Navalent, bestselling author of To Be Honest, and one of the most unflinchingly candid voices in leadership—reveals what 30 years of research and experience have uncovered: honesty isn’t just a virtue. It’s a muscle. And organizations are either strengthening it… or eroding it every day.

Together, Rob and Ron revisit the early days of their collaboration, exploring what it really takes to lead alongside others with authenticity, speed, and grace. They reflect on the messy, beautiful realities of partnership, the tension between pace and presence, the power of emerging leaders, and the organizational conditions that predict whether people will tell the truth—or hide it.

Ron breaks down the four conditions that scientifically predict honesty and trustworthiness on a team, including accountability with dignity, say–do alignment, cross-functional integrity, and true transparency in decision-making. Through candid stories, personal reflection, and practical insights, this episode challenges leaders to examine not just who they are—but the environments they create.

This is a masterclass in leading with integrity in complex times, delivered with the honesty, humor, and clarity that only Ron Carucci can bring.

Leaders must practice honesty daily. Our brains are wired for truth, but our environments often pull us toward fear, self-protection, or silence.

There are four conditions that predict truth-telling or deception. Leaders either reinforce or erode integrity by the systems they tolerate.

If what you claim as a leader doesn’t match what people observe, you institutionalize duplicity.

When people feel seen and respected for their contributions, they are four times more likely to tell the truth.

If a room feels like orchestrated theater, people will seek truth elsewhere—usually in hushed corners.

Cross-functional tensions are where the truth fractures first. Healthy seams = healthy trust.

For more on Ron's work click the links below:

www.navalent.com

www.tobehonest.net