Rob Knake's fingerprints are all over modern cyber policy. As White House Director for Cybersecurity Policy, he helped craft the nation’s most significant cybersecurity strategy in nearly two decades and guided the response to major national cyber incidents. He’s advised presidents, shaped global cyber norms, co-authored two influential books on cyber conflict, and served as a senior fellow at Harvard and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

03:15 - Growing Up with New Deal Democrats

06:30 - "To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required."

10:45 - Choosing Public Service Over Corporate Law

14:20 - Education at Connecticut College

18:30 - Democracy, Capitalism & Fukuyama's End of History

22:10 - Coast Guard Internship & Steve Flynn's Influence

27:45 - Richard Clarke & Early Cyber Policy Work

32:20 - The Emergence of Cyber as a National Security Threat

36:40 - From Good Harbor Consulting to Government Service

40:15 - Working on Counterterrorism at DHS

44:30 - The Bin Laden Raid Era & Shifting to Cyber

48:20 - Joining the Obama White House NSC

52:45 - Life as an NSC Staffer - Long Hours & Mission

56:30 - Stuxnet & Understanding Real-World Cyber Threats

01:00:15 - The Failed 2011 Cybersecurity Legislation

01:04:40 - Executive Order 13636 & The NIST Framework

01:09:20 - Operation Aurora & Chinese IP Theft

01:13:45 - Nudges vs Shoves - Voluntary vs Mandatory Security

01:18:30 - The Need for Cybersecurity Regulation

01:22:50 - Who Should Regulate & How to Regulate

01:27:10 - Software Liability & Outcome-Based Security

01:32:25 - The SolarWinds/Sunburst Attack Explained

01:37:40 - Private Equity's Impact on Cybersecurity

01:41:15 - The Failure of Collective Defense

01:45:30 - Government vs Private Sector Responsibility

01:52:20 - Why Government Can't Take Over Cyber Defense

01:58:45 - The Rise of Ransomware as a Threat

02:03:30 - Should We Ban Ransomware Payments?

02:08:15 - Corporate Hack-Back Operations

02:11:40 - Holding Nation-States Accountable for Ransomware

02:16:25 - Deterrence vs Resilience in Cyber Policy

02:22:10 - Are We Winning in Cybersecurity?

02:26:30 - AI's Impact on Cybersecurity

02:29:45 - Trump Administration & Potential Regulatory Changes

02:33:20 - The Public Sector Pay Gap Problem

02:38:50 - Current Work in the Private Sector

02:42:15 - Bridging the Hacker-Policy Divide

02:45:30 - Closing Thoughts

Mohammed Bagha—who keeps his hacker handles anonymous and goes simply by ‘MB’—was one of the most feared hackers of the 1990s. With a larger-than-life online persona and the skills to back it up, he infiltrated corporate systems, telecom networks, and even the machines of other well-known hackers. He exposed their flaws, mocked their code, and dropped their secrets in public forums. But narrow misses with the law soon changed his path, and like many from that era, he turned his talents to defense—helping global companies strengthen their security and build lasting strategies.

David Jacoby (aka “pewp”) is a pioneering Swedish hacker with over 30 years of influence in cybersecurity and hacker culture. From the early days of BBS systems, war dialing, and underground groups like Hack.se to connections with the Pirate Bay founders and the infamous CIA website hack, his journey shaped how hacking is viewed worldwide. He has been a technical advisor for the Millennium Trilogy (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo), starred in mainstream TV series like “Hacked”, founded Unreached AB, and now drives innovation as Chief Strategy Officer at Syndis in Iceland. Known for blending technical brilliance with cultural impact, Jacoby’s career reflects the evolution of hacking from underground curiosity to a force that redefined modern cybersecurity.