In Episode 45, Kelly hosts for the first time and friend of the pod Scott Brinker returns to pressure test the SaaS apocalypse thesis.

We cover:

• Anthropic’s new agent capabilities, including legal automation

• The $1T software selloff and Nvidia’s pushback on the collapse narrative

• Microsoft positioning against OpenAI and the rise of AI co opetition

• Anthropic vs OpenAI’s Super Bowl ad battle and Sam Altman’s response

• OpenAI hiring forward deployed engineers and what it signals about product companies moving into services

• KPMG and McKinsey data showing most enterprises are still experimenting with agents

Are agents replacing applications? Or are software companies embedding AI faster than the market expects?

The data suggests we are not seeing the death of SaaS, but a reshuffling of power across models, infrastructure, applications, and services.

If you care about AI, SaaS, hyperscalers, or ecosystem strategy, this episode breaks down what’s signal vs noise.

In this episode, Asher and Kelly zoom out to a bigger question: what happens when AI turns nations, platforms, and enterprises into ecosystem companies?

Starting with the idea that “America is becoming a platform company,” they explore why the biggest AI winners will be the ones with the largest ecosystems, not just the best models.

From Lumen’s transformation from telecom provider to connective AI infrastructure, to the mounting pressure on system integrators to redesign their business models, to Anthropic hiring a revenue owning SI leader at $250K plus OTE, the signals are clear. Adoption beats shipping, and execution beats hype.

They also unpack new data from the 2026 State of Partnership Leaders report, including the hard truth about budget authority, and connect it to Salesforce’s latest State of Sales, where partner selling is now nearly universal.

If platforms win through ecosystems, someone has to own outcomes. This episode explores who that is and why this moment may redefine the Chief Partner Officer role.

In this episode, Asher and Kelly kick off a new Unlearn format and talk through what’s really changing across the tech ecosystem. Kathleen Curry from Workday joins the pod.

They dig into OpenAI recruiting a CPO-level partnerships role, Shopify’s partnership shakeup, and the latest partner program moves from Google, Microsoft and ServiceNow.

The conversation also looks at what the BCG AI Radar tells us about CEOs taking ownership of AI, and why partnerships now have to focus on adoption, expansion, and real customer value.