In this second of two episodes about De Materie (Matter) by Louis Andriessen, fellow composer David Dramm reflects on his close relationship with Andriessen and the creation of De Materie. He describes witnessing the piece’s early development, studying with Andriessen, and experiencing the premiere of De Materie in 1989 up close. Together with host Bas Wiegers, he explores the work’s signature elements - its hammer-like opening chords, mystical second movement, playful boogie-woogie references, and slowly unfolding climaxes - showing how Andriessen combined rigorous structure with raw energy, beauty, and humor.

Music: Louis Andriessen - De Materie played by Asko|Schönberg and Reinbert de Leeuw https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nNB6P-Q3PRGxAlesE6MVMuv0s-JJmc6D8

In the first of two episodes on De Materie, we explore Louis Andriessen’s groundbreaking masterpiece with biographer Jacqueline Oskamp. We trace the influences behind this pivotal work - from the pressure of Andriessen’s earlier successes to the political and musical ideals that shaped his 1980s style. The episode highlights the piece’s structure, its bold musical logic, and the key collaborations with Jan van Vlijmen and Robert Wilson that helped form its distinctive character. We end with a preview of Episode Two, featuring a former student offering his own view on Andriessen and his legacy.

Music: Louis Andriessen - De Materie played by Asko|Schönberg and Reinbert de Leeuw https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nNB6P-Q3PRGxAlesE6MVMuv0s-JJmc6D8

Conductor Bas Wiegers interviews composer Márton Illés after two intense days recording Illes' new cello concerto with Nicolas Altstaedt and the Münchener Kammerorchester at the Bayerische Rundfunk.

They discuss finding a personal compositional language, balancing freedom and structure, the physical and acoustic reality of sound, use of electronics, and how collaboration and selflessness shape complex contemporary music in rehearsal and recording.

The music played in the episode can be found here:

Márton Illés - Violinkonzert (2019) Patricia Kopatchinskaja, WDR Sinfonieorchester, Michael Wendeberg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzsGf8NebOg

Márton Illés - Ljubljana24 (2018–20/24) Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin Enno Poppe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1GbmfvlzKI&list=RDN1GbmfvlzKI&start_radio=1

I speak about Charles Ives with the great Ives connoisseur Thomas Brodhead, whom I got to know when we worked on Ives’ Fourth Symphony with the Concertgebouw Orchestra back in 2012. Ives is such a fascinating composer and has been a constant inspiration in my life as a musician. At the moment, I’m preparing his piece Three Places in New England, which I get to conduct for the first time.

Links to the pieces:

Charles Ives: Country Band March

President's Own United States Marine Band

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avowzDI8uR0

Charles Ives (orch. T. Grahl, 2021): Walt Whitman - (1921) from 114 Songs Klangforum Wien, Thomas Hampson, Bas Wiegers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqnO8dJJPYs

Charles Ives: Fourth Symphony

Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Peter Eötvös, Bas Wiegers, Ralph van Raat

Private recording

Charles Ives: March No. 6 for Piano, with Here's to Good Old Yale

Charles Ives, piano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMW0r_ZxFm8&list=OLAK5uy_lE6Eb6U39_HOe_juxz9dJukRFRewUz3xs&index=41

Charles Ives: Three Places In New England - 1. The "St. Gaudens" In Boston Common

Boston Symphony Orchestra, Michael Tilson Thomas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhbutHpwEh8

Charles Ives: They Are There!, second take

Charles Ives, piano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az0iNeRvNts&list=OLAK5uy_lE6Eb6U39_HOe_juxz9dJukRFRewUz3xs&index=39

Charles Ives: Four Transcriptions from Emerson: No. 1 (beg.)

Charles Ives, piano

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c8lNFR5xWw&list=OLAK5uy_lE6Eb6U39_HOe_juxz9dJukRFRewUz3xs&index=1

Charles Ives: Three Places In New England - 2. Putnam's Camp, Redding, Connecticut

Boston Symphony Orchestra, Michael Tilson Thomas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Ytm0l0FTU

Charles Ives: The Unanswered Question

Ricciotti Ensemble, Leonard van Goudoever

Private Recording

Today I'm spending some time with the 93 year old Theo Loevendie, one of the first living composers I worked with as a student. I'm coming back to his music after 25 years, to prepare two concerts with the Concertgebouw Orchestra. We speak about his youth, his influences, and about the two works I'm preparing: Flexio for orchestra and Six Turkish Folk Poems for singer and orchestra.

Here's info about the music you hear:

Draaiorgel Sarie Marais - Appeltjes van Oranje

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgOlWzqXXnY

Glenn Miller - American Patrol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAVejLjXVdw

Umm Kulthum - 1967, Live at the Olympia, Paris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPGHpBOt5sE

Theo Loevendie - Six Turkish Folk Poems

Dorothy Dorow, soprano

Residentie Orkest

Ernest Bour, conductor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU4090D14hs

Theo Loevendie - Flexio

Residentie Orkest

Peter Eötvös, conductor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYxMTfeEbFQ&t=412s

Theo Loevendie - Venus and Adonis

Insomnio:

Carlos Galvez, bass clarinet

Bas Wiegers, violin

Martine Sikkenk, mandolin

Reinhold Westerheide, guitar

Ulrich Pöhl, percussion

(private recording)

Photo Loevendie: Teo Krijgsman

I have a chat with Rebecca Saunders, who works very closely with musicians to find the sounds she loves. We speak about the new piece (Skull) which we have just premiered at the Achtbrücken Festival, but also about other pieces and musicians who have inspired her.

I’ve woven small fragments of her music into the episode. If you want to have a proper listen to the entire pieces, the links are below.

YES https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtuJLKb0Vwc

Ensemble Musikfabrik, Juliet Fraser, Enno Poppe

DUST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA2P7PQp0OU

Dirk Rothbrust, percussion

SKIN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkdODcg2Fmw

Klangforum Wien, Juliet Fraser, Bas Wiegers

SCAR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BriQ35IrGxA

Klangforum Wien, Julien Leroy

For this episode, I spoke with Johanna Zimmer, a wonderful soprano I had the joy of working with many times. She works as a soloist, as a chamber musician, in the choir, in opera. We speak about this versatility and why she needs it in her life. We speak about words in music and how important they are for us as musicians. At the moment, we are working with the SWR Vokalensemble on a program with music by Ligeti, Feldman and Orlando di Lasso.

The music you hear, is:

György Ligeti - Three Fantasies: Wenn aus der Ferne

SWR Vokalensemble, Yuval Weinberg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvJzdYziCic

Morton Feldman - Rothko Chapel

SWR Vokalensemble, Marcus Creed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGQe3NsuvfM&t=636s

Orlando di Lasso - Lagrime di San Pietro: il magnanimo Pietro

Ensemble Vocal Européen, Philippe Herreweghe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeHZQ83oFQM

Franz Tunder - Ach Herr, lass deine lieben Engelein

Johanna Zimmer, Ensemble with Fabian Wöhrle, continuo

For this episode, I spoke with Enno Poppe. At the moment of recording, I am doing his piece Speicher with Klangforum Wien. We speak about deciding what ideas you want to put in a piece, Enno's love of idiomatic material and his close relationship to players, which is so important for the way he writes. We speak about the different roles we can have: in the case of Enno, he is not only a composer, but also a conductor, a player, and, of course, also sometimes audience. How does his persona change when his role changes? Is a conductor a different person?

The music you hear is:

Enno Poppe - Speicher (Klangforum Wien, Enno Poppe)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR_43dJWjFw

Enno Poppe - Augen (Sara Maria Sun, WDR Symphony Orchestra, Bas Wiegers)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkiG3uWah1s