How many visitors are too many?

It is one of the most important and most misunderstood questions in parks and public lands today. In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald sits down with Jonathan Brunjes, Deputy Administrator for the Nevada Division of State Parks, to unpack the concept of carrying capacity and why it is not just about counting people. It is about protecting resources, preserving visitor experience, and making thoughtful management decisions that sustain parks for generations.

Together they explore:

• What carrying capacity really means, beyond a simple number

• The difference between physical, ecological, social, and managerial capacity

• Why "more visitation" is not always a success story

• How crowding affects both natural resources and the visitor experience

• Practical tools park leaders can use to evaluate use and impacts

• The role of communication, expectations, and education in managing demand

• Why carrying capacity is ultimately about stewardship, not restriction

This conversation brings real world perspective to an issue many agencies are grappling with as visitation grows nationwide. It is an honest look at how we balance access with preservation, while staying true to the mission of public lands.

Whether you are a park professional, planner, elected official, or someone who simply loves the outdoors, this episode will challenge you to think differently about how we care for the places entrusted to us.

jbrunjes@parks.nv.gov

donald.forgione@gmail.com

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, I sit down with M.J. James, author of Heal the Hustle, for an honest and timely conversation about burnout, productivity culture, and what it really means to live—and lead—well.

Many of us were taught that hustle equals success. Work harder. Push longer. Rest later. But what happens when that mindset starts to cost us our health, relationships, creativity, and joy?

M.J. challenges the traditional hustle narrative and offers a healthier, more sustainable way forward—especially for leaders, high performers, and purpose-driven professionals who care deeply about their work.

Together, we talk about:

• How hustle culture quietly leads to burnout

• The difference between ambition and exhaustion

• Why rest is not a reward—it's a requirement

• Reframing productivity to include health and humanity

• Practical ways leaders can model balance without losing effectiveness

• How healing the hustle creates stronger teams, better decisions, and longer careers

This conversation is especially relevant for public servants, park and recreation professionals, nonprofit leaders, and anyone who feels called to serve—but doesn't want to lose themselves in the process.

If you've ever felt tired, stretched thin, or wondered, "Is this pace really sustainable?"—this episode is for you.

M.J. James is the author of Heal the Hustle and a passionate advocate for redefining success in a world that glorifies burnout. Through her work, she helps individuals and organizations rethink productivity, prioritize well-being, and build lives rooted in purpose—not constant pressure.

🔗 Learn more about M.J. and her work: mjjames.com

donald.forgione@gmail.com

tailgate-talks.com

Guest: Lauren McMillan, PhD, RPA – Cultural Resource Manager, Virginia State Parks Lauren.McMillan@dcr.virginia.gov
Host: Donald Forgione donald.forgione@gmail.com

In this episode of Tailgate Talks, Donald Forgione sits down with Lauren McMillan, the Cultural Resource Manager from Virginia State Parks, to talk about what cultural resources really are—and why they matter far beyond compliance, checklists, or old buildings.

This conversation explores the humanity behind cultural resources: the people, stories, and lived experiences embedded in landscapes, structures, and artifacts across our parks. Lauren shares her journey from academia into state parks, how teaching shapes her work today, and why helping staff understand the why behind cultural resource protection changes everything—from decision-making to visitor experience.

This episode is a thoughtful reminder that parks don't just protect land—they protect stories.

• What cultural resources actually include (and common misconceptions)

• Moving from compliance-driven preservation to meaningful connection

• The role of cultural resource managers in everyday park decisions

• Balancing preservation, safety, and public use

• Why physical places help us connect to the humanity of the past

• How understanding cultural resources strengthens park staff and visitor experience

• Cultural resources aren't just "old things"—they are evidence of real people

• Why interpretation and preservation go hand in hand

• How cultural resource awareness empowers non-specialist park staff

• The danger of treating preservation as a checklist instead of a responsibility

• Protecting stories, not just structures

• Park, recreation, and public land professionals

• Interpreters, rangers, maintenance staff, and managers

• Leaders making decisions that affect historic and cultural sites

• Anyone who believes parks are about people as much as places

When we understand the stories embedded in our parks, we don't just protect resources—we honor the people who came before us and enrich the experience of those who come after.