Host Todd Conklin interviews fatigue expert Mark Rosekind, PhD about his path from sleep research to roles at NASA, the NTSB, and NHTSA, and how sleep science applies across transportation and safety-critical work.

Key takeaways: think of sleep like a bank account (sleep debt), "start in the black" before major schedule changes, the benefits of strategic naps, and systemic ways organizations can reduce fatigue to improve performance, health, and safety.

Todd Conklin discusses VUCA (Volatility, Uncertainty, Complexity, Adaptation) and argues that innovation and safety improve when organizations embrace uncertainty and gather more diverse information and perspectives.

He mixes personal travel and Olympics anecdotes, touches on aviation and healthcare examples, and invites listeners to a hands-on workshop to explore these ideas further.

In this clip from the Pre‑Accident Investigation Podcast and Punk Rock Safety, Todd joins Ron, Ben, and David to debate why safety innovation is stalling, where new ideas are coming from, and who’s pushing practice forward. They explore barriers like regulatory pressure, the pull of “normal,” and the difference between improving safety and redesigning work.

Using examples from pediatric intensive care and other domains, the conversation highlights pockets of progress, the danger of idea corruption, and the need to embrace experimentation, rethink systems, and find the next generation of thinkers to advance safety practice.