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  • Episode 96: Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace: A Conversation with Mark DeYmaz
    Apr 2 2026
    In this episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland sits down with Mark DeYmaz, the founder of Mosaic Church of Central Arkansas and a leading voice in the multiethnic church movement. They talk about Mark’s newest book, Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace. Drawing from the Prayer of St. Francis, Mark offers a vision for becoming more like Jesus in a divided world. Mark shares his spiritual journey from a Catholic upbringing and Jesuit education to a personal awakening of faith during his college years. They talk about their shared love for the music and passion of Keith Green and how formative it was for them both. Mark also reflects the challenging of leaving a successful youth ministry in order to plant a multiethnic church, which was anchored in his family’s motto: faith, courage, and sacrifice. Together, Derek and Mark explore the church’s credibility crisis in a culture marked by division, the importance of embodying good works before speaking good words, and why peacemaking must hold together both love and justice. They also discuss the role of fear in fueling division and what it means for Christians to faithfully engage a fractured world without retreating into silence or reacting without wisdom. Books Mentioned • Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace — Mark DeYmaz Scriptures Mentioned • Matthew 5:16 • Isaiah 61 Has Peaceable and Kind been meaningful to you? Support the show by: · Leaving a review · Giving us a 5-star rating on your podcast app · Sharing this episode with a friend Order Derek's new Bible Study Series, God in the Neighborhood: Book 1: Incarnation: 8 Lessons on How God Meets Us || https://amzn.to/42jSZAs Book 2: Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us || https://amzn.to/459bNUk Book 3: Resurrection: 8 Lessons on How God Restores Us || https://amzn.to/40T0sp0 Learn more about Derek’s work as a pastor and author: https://derekvreeland.com Interact with Derek on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, or Facebook
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    40 Min.
  • Episode 95: Recapitulation and Final Thoughts on The Crucifixion
    Mar 26 2026
    In this Holy Week episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland concludes the Lenten journey through Fleming Rutledge’s The Crucifixion. This episode reflects on the meaning of the cross through the final biblical motif Rutledge explores: recapitulation. Derek also offers his final thoughts on Rutledge’s book. Recapitulation is the idea that Jesus “sums up” the human story and lives it again the right way. Where Adam failed, where Israel failed, and where we fail, Jesus succeeds. Drawing on the theology of Irenaeus and the apostle Paul’s description of Christ as the “second Adam,” this image shows how Jesus restores humanity by living a life of perfect covenant faithfulness and undoing the damage introduced by Adam. Through Christ’s life, death, and resurrection, a new humanity is born, one no longer ruled by Sin and Death but brought into the life of the new Adam. The crucifixion reveals both the depth of humanity’s captivity to Sin and the power of God’s righteousness to set things right. God’s righteousness is God’s power to rectify what has gone wrong in the world. While Christians are called to pursue justice, the ultimate restoration of creation belongs to God alone. Derek closes the series by reflecting on why The Crucifixion remains one of the most important books he has read on the death of Jesus, while also noting the importance of recovering the kingdom implications of the cross, that is, how the crucified and risen Jesus is revealed as the true King of the nations. Books Mentioned • The Crucifixion — Fleming Rutledge • The Day the Revolution Began — N. T. Wright • N.T. Wright and the Revolutionary Cross — Derek Vreeland Scriptures Mentioned • Matthew 26:26–28 • Genesis 12 • Romans 5:14–15 • 1 Corinthians 15:22 Has Peaceable and Kind been meaningful to you? Support the show by: Leaving a review Giving us a 5-star rating on your podcast app Sharing this episode with a friend Order Derek's new Bible Study Series, God in the Neighborhood: Book 1: Incarnation: 8 Lessons on How God Meets Us || https://amzn.to/42jSZAs Book 2: Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us || https://amzn.to/459bNUk Book 3: Resurrection: 8 Lessons on How God Restores Us || https://amzn.to/40T0sp0 Learn more about Derek’s work as a pastor and author: https://derekvreeland.com Interact with Derek on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, or Facebook
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    36 Min.
  • Episode 94: Substitution and Karl Barth
    Mar 19 2026
    In this episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland continues the Lenten journey through Fleming Rutledge’s The Crucifixion, focusing on substitution. While Rutledge explores eight major biblical images of the atonement, substitution receives the most pages and perhaps the most theological weight. Rutledge has suggested that all the biblical metaphors of atonement can be gathered under two headings: Christus Victor and substitution. Substitution means that Jesus died for us and in our place. Drawing from Galatians 3:13 and 2 Corinthians 5:21, the episode explores how substitution functions as a participatory exchange. Jesus becomes the curse so we might be freed from it. Jesus becomes sin so we might embody the righteousness of God. The emphasis is not transactional but transformational. Romans 8:3 becomes a key text: God “condemned sin in the flesh.” The Father is condemning Sin. He is not condemning the Son. The cross is the place where sin is judged and destroyed. Jesus dies as fully human because humanity is responsible for sin, and fully divine because only God can defeat death. To rethink substitution faithfully, Rutledge turns to Karl Barth. In Church Dogmatics IV and Dogmatics in Outline, Barth describes reconciliation as God putting himself in humanity’s place so that humanity might be put in God’s place. This vision echoes Athanasius of Alexandria: “God became man that man might become God.” Substitution, rightly understood, is relational, Trinitarian, incarnational, and resurrection-shaped. The episode concludes by affirming substitution as a biblical metaphor—but not the only one. The cross must be held together with incarnation, resurrection, and ascension. God does not turn away from humanity; even in judgment, God’s opposition to evil is the expression of divine love. Russell Moore’s interview with Flemming Rutledge is here: https://www.russellmoore.com/2023/03/29/fleming-rutledge-on-the-cross/ Books Mentioned The Crucifixion by Fleming Rutledge Stricken by God? edited by Brad Jersak & Michael Hardin A More Christlike God by Brad Jersak Violence, Hospitality, and the Cross by Hans Boersma Dogmatics in Outline by Karl Barth Scriptures Mentioned Acts 3:15 Galatians 3:13 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:24–25 Romans 5:12–21 Romans 8:3 Has Peaceable and Kind been meaningful to you? Support the show by: Leaving a review Giving us a 5-star rating on your podcast app Sharing this episode with a friend Order Derek's new Bible Study Series, God in the Neighborhood: Book 1: Incarnation: 8 Lessons on How God Meets Us || https://amzn.to/42jSZAs Book 2: Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us || https://amzn.to/459bNUk Book 3: Resurrection: 8 Lessons on How God Restores Us || https://amzn.to/40T0sp0 Learn more about Derek’s work as a pastor and author: https://derekvreeland.com Interact with Derek on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, or Facebook
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    38 Min.
  • Episode 93: Christus Victor, Hell, and Evil
    Mar 12 2026
    In this episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland continues the Lenten journey through Fleming Rutledge’s The Crucifixion, focusing on two powerful chapters: the Christus Victor image of the cross and Jesus’ descent into hell. Christus Victor is the great battle metaphor of the atonement. At the cross, Jesus defeats the enslaving powers of Sin, Death, and the devil. These are not abstract ideas, but active forces holding humanity in bondage. Drawing from Colossians 2:15 and Romans 5-6, Rutledge frames the cross as apocalyptic, that is an an unveiling or revelation. The crucifixion reveals that Jesus is Lord. Authority has shifted. Sin and Death no longer reign. The Lamb who was slain now reigns at the center of the throne. Derek clarifies key biblical language surrounding. Gehenna as a metaphor for final judgment, Hades (and Hebrew Sheol) as the realm of the dead. Jesus did not descend into Gehenna to be punished; his suffering was finished at the cross. Rather, the descent proclaims victory. Death is personified as a prison master, and Jesus is the liberator. Rutledge pushes us to take judgment seriously without exaggeration or sentimentality. Hell is best understood not as literal fire but as a domain where evil reigns, a tragic reality of separation from the life of God. Finally, the discussion moves to the nature of evil. Following Augustine and Gregory of Nyssa, Rutledge affirms that evil is not a created substance but a privation of the good (privatio boni). Evil is real and destructive, but it lacks actual substance. Evil is like a hole in the ground. It does not have substance but it can trip us up. It cannot be explained away, only denounced and resisted. The Triune God comes in Christ to overthrow the unholy trinity of Sin, Death, and the devil. The gospel is deliverance from the grip of evil and victory belongs to Jesus. Books Mentioned • The Crucifixion — Fleming Rutledge • Christus Victor — Gustaf Aulén • The Great Divorce — C. S. Lewis • Exclusion and Embrace — Miroslav Volf Scriptures Mentioned • Colossians 2:15 • Romans 5:21 • Romans 6:9, 14, 23 • 1 Peter 3 Has Peaceable and Kind been meaningful to you? Support the show by: Leaving a review Giving us a 5-star rating on your podcast app Sharing this episode with a friend Order Derek's new Bible Study Series, God in the Neighborhood: Book 1: Incarnation: 8 Lessons on How God Meets Us || https://amzn.to/42jSZAs Book 2: Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us || https://amzn.to/459bNUk Book 3: Resurrection: 8 Lessons on How God Restores Us || https://amzn.to/40T0sp0 Learn more about Derek’s work as a pastor and author: https://derekvreeland.com Interact with Derek on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, or Facebook
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    39 Min.
  • Episode 92: Rejecting Propitiation and Reclaiming Redemption
    Mar 5 2026
    In this episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland continues the Lenten journey through Fleming Rutledge’s The Crucifixion, exploring four major biblical images for understanding the death of Jesus: Passover and Exodus, blood sacrifice, ransom and redemption, and final judgment. Derek insists that we do not begin with atonement theories or later theological debates. Rather we begin with the Old Testament. The cross only makes sense within the story of Israel, especially the Exodus, where salvation is framed not as abstract forgiveness but as liberation from slavery and deliverance from death. This episode also tackles the controversial question of propitiation. Rutledge argues that the Greek word hilasterion in Romans 3:25 should not be translated as “propitiation” (appeasing an angry God), but as expiation, that is the removal of sin. The barrier between God and humanity is not God’s anger but our sin. Redemption, then, is the Triune God’s loving work of buying back humanity from the enslaving powers of Sin, Death, and the Devil. Judgment, or what Rutledge calls “The Great Assize,” is not contrary to love but an expression of it. God’s righteous commitment to set the world right. Books Mentioned • The Crucifixion — Fleming Rutledge • The Day the Revolution Began by N. T. Wright • Centering Jesus by Derek Vreeland •On the Incarnation by Athanasius Scriptures Mentioned • Exodus 12–15 • Leviticus 16 • Isaiah 53:7 • Romans 3:25 • Romans 8:3 • Hebrews 9:26 • Mark 10:45 • 1 Corinthians 6:19–20 • Matthew 25 • John 8 Has Peaceable and Kind been meaningful to you? Support the show by: Leaving a review Giving us a 5-star rating on your podcast app Sharing this episode with a friend Order Derek's new Bible Study Series, God in the Neighborhood: Book 1: Incarnation: 8 Lessons on How God Meets Us || https://amzn.to/42jSZAs Book 2: Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us || https://amzn.to/459bNUk Book 3: Resurrection: 8 Lessons on How God Restores Us || https://amzn.to/40T0sp0 Learn more about Derek’s work as a pastor and author: https://derekvreeland.com Interact with Derek on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, or Facebook
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    45 Min.
  • Episode 91: Anselm and the Power of Sin
    Feb 24 2026
    In this deeply theological episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland continues the Lenten journey through Fleming Rutledge’s The Crucifixion by working through two chapters that bring Rutledge’s long introduction to a close. These chapters cover her reconsideration of Anselm and satisfaction theory and her exploration of the gravity of Sin. They both lay crucial groundwork for everything that follows in the book. Derek engages Rutledge appreciatively but critically, clarifying where he agrees, where he wrestles, and where he remains unconvinced. Theology at its best does not simply settle questions but deepens them in faithful and prayerful ways. This episode explores Anselm’s satisfaction theory, how it differs from penal substitution, and why Rutledge’s retrieval, guided in part by Eastern Orthodox theologian David Bentley Hart, deserves careful attention. Derek also raises important questions about obedience, the life of Jesus, and whether “satisfaction” is best understood as a life faithfully lived rather than a transactional mechanism centered on death alone. The episode concludes with Rutledge’s sobering chapter on the gravity of Sin, where sin is not treated as a collection of bad choices but as a dark, enslaving power paired with Death itself. Only when we take sin seriously, Rutledge insists, can we begin to understand why the cross had to be as ugly and costly as it was. Key Takeaways • Anselm’s satisfaction theory is distinct from penal substitution • Satisfaction focuses on restoring God’s honor; penal substitution focuses on punishment. • Rutledge does not defend a transactional or appeasement-based view of atonement. • Jesus’ obedient and faithful life raises important questions about what truly satisfies God. • Sin is not merely individual wrongdoing but a power that enslaves and destroys. • In Scripture, Sin and Death function as ruling forces over humanity. • The ugliness of the cross corresponds to the gravity and power of sin. • The cross makes no sense unless we take sin far more seriously than modern culture does. Books Mentioned • The Crucifixion — Fleming Rutledge • On the Incarnation — Athanasius Scriptures Mentioned • Romans 5:19 • 1 Corinthians 15:3 • Romans 6:12 • Romans 6:17 • Romans 7:11 Has Peaceable and Kind been meaningful to you? Support the show by: Leaving a review Giving us a 5-star rating on your podcast app Sharing this episode with a friend Order Derek's new Bible Study Series, God in the Neighborhood: Book 1: Incarnation: 8 Lessons on How God Meets Us || https://amzn.to/42jSZAs Book 2: Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us || https://amzn.to/459bNUk Book 3: Resurrection: 8 Lessons on How God Restores Us || https://amzn.to/40T0sp0 Learn more about Derek’s work as a pastor and author: https://derekvreeland.com Interact with Derek on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, or Facebook
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    37 Min.
  • Episode 90 - The Ugliness of the Cross and the Wrath of God
    Feb 19 2026
    Lent is underway, and in this episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek continues the Lenten journey through Fleming Rutledge’s monumental book, The Crucifixion. This episode takes a deep dive into chapters 2 and 3, confronting the ugliness of the cross and rethinking the meaning of the wrath of God. Before the cross became a polished religious symbol, it was an instrument of terror, shame, and public humiliation. Rutledge insists that if we want to understand what the death of Jesus means, we must first face what it was: irreligious, degrading, and horrifying. Only by grounding the crucifixion in its historical reality can we begin to grasp how God’s justice and mercy meet at the cross. This episode also explores Rutledge’s reframing of divine justice—not as punishment for punishment’s sake, but as God’s work of rectifying what is broken. God’s wrath, she argues, is not an emotional outburst, but God’s active opposition to sin and evil for the sake of setting the world right. Key Takeaways • The cross was not a religious symbol but an instrument of public shame and terror. • The manner of Jesus’ death matters as much as the fact of his death. • Roman crucifixion was designed to humiliate, dehumanize, and warn entire populations. • God’s justice in Scripture is about rectification, not mere punishment. • Forgiveness restores relationships; justice seeks to make things right. • The wrath of God is not emotional rage but God’s active opposition to evil. • God’s justice is restorative, aimed at healing what sin has corrupted. Books Mentioned • The Crucifixion — Fleming Rutledge • The Day the Revolution Began — N. T. Wright • The Cross and the Lynching Tree — James Cone Scriptures Mentioned • John 1:29 • Isaiah 1:16–17 • Matthew 12:18 Has Peaceable and Kind been meaningful to you? Support the show by: Leaving a review Giving us a 5-star rating on your podcast app Sharing this episode with a friend Order Derek's new Bible Study Series, God in the Neighborhood: Book 1: Incarnation: 8 Lessons on How God Meets Us || https://amzn.to/42jSZAs Book 2: Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us || https://amzn.to/459bNUk Book 3: Resurrection: 8 Lessons on How God Restores Us || https://amzn.to/40T0sp0 Learn more about Derek’s work as a pastor and author: https://derekvreeland.com Interact with Derek on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, or Facebook
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    37 Min.
  • Episode 89: An Introduction to Fleming Rutledge's The Crucifixion
    Feb 12 2026
    With Ash Wednesday approaching, Derek begins a special seven-week journey focused on the cross by introducing what he considers the most important contemporary book written on the death of Jesus: The Crucifixion by Fleming Rutledge. In a religious culture often drawn toward inspiration, self-help, or relevance at all costs, Rutledge refuses to soften the offense of the gospel. She insists that Christianity does not begin with moral improvement or spiritual techniques, but with an event no one would have invented—the public execution of the Son of God. In this episode, Derek explores why Rutledge’s work matters so deeply, how her life as a parish priest shaped her theology, and why the cross remains the central, unsettling, and hope-filled truth of the Christian faith. This episode sets the stage for a slow, careful walk through a book that refuses easy answers and instead invites us to live within the tensions of judgment and mercy, suffering and hope, cross and resurrection. Key Takeaways • The Crucifixion is the fruit of over twenty years of pastoral preaching and theological reflection. • Christianity begins with an event that looks like failure: the execution of a crucified man. • Rutledge writes as a preacher and pastor, not as a detached academic or system-builder. • The cross is not a metaphor or symbol, but God’s decisive confrontation with sin, death, and evil. • The gospel resists being reduced to self-help, moral uplift, or religious technique. • Christian faith is learned by living within tension, not resolving it prematurely. • The crucifixion reveals who God truly is—and redefines how God rules and reigns. Books Mentioned Violence, Hospitality, and the Cross by Hans Boersma The Day the Revolution Began by N. T. Wright N.T. Wright and the Revolutionary Cross by Derek Vreeland The Crucifixion by Fleming Rutledge Scriptures Mentioned John 1:29 John 18:33–37 1 Corinthians 2:2 Resource Mentioned Russell Moore interview with Fleming Rutledge (2023): https://www.russellmoore.com/2023/03/29/fleming-rutledge-on-the-cross/ Has Peaceable and Kind been meaningful to you? Support the show by: Leaving a review Giving us a 5-star rating on your podcast app Sharing this episode with a friend Order Derek's new Bible Study Series, God in the Neighborhood: Book 1: Incarnation: 8 Lessons on How God Meets Us || https://amzn.to/42jSZAs Book 2: Crucifixion: 8 Lessons on How God Saves Us || https://amzn.to/459bNUk Book 3: Resurrection: 8 Lessons on How God Restores Us || https://amzn.to/40T0sp0 Learn more about Derek’s work as a pastor and author: https://derekvreeland.com Interact with Derek on Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, or Facebook
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    35 Min.