In this debrief episode of Leadership Story Talks, Jerome and Julienne reflect on a powerful idea shared by executive coach Greg Smith: real growth doesn’t come from a single coaching moment—it comes from changing how we listen, lead, and respond to challenges over time.

The conversation explores a common tension leaders face: how to sustain the impact of coaching once the “bubble” of one-on-one support disappears and real-world pressures return.

You'll hear:
- Coaching shouldn’t be something you “finish.”
Jerome and Julienne unpack the idea that coaching isn’t a checkbox or a temporary intervention. For growth to last, leaders and organizations must invest in structures that support continued practice, reflection, and accountability—long after formal coaching ends.

- Listening is the foundation of effective storytelling.
A recurring theme in the episode is that leaders often feel pressure to perform—to have the right message, the right vision, the right story. But sustainable leadership begins with listening first. When leaders truly hear their teams’ experiences, the right stories emerge naturally.

- Practice creates confidence—and sustainability.
Jerome shares an example of a leader who entered coaching wanting to become a better storyteller, only to realize that listening more deeply was the real shift. Through repeated practice during coaching, that leader built confidence and eventually internalized a new leadership habit that continued long after coaching ended.

- From “what’s happening to me” to “what do I get to do.”
The debrief highlights a mindset shift at the heart of Greg Smith’s message: challenges will come regardless. The question is whether leaders meet them from a place of curiosity and agency—or from a sense of victimhood.

- Organizations play a role, too.
Julienne emphasizes that sustainability isn’t solely the responsibility of the individual being coached. Organizations must stay engaged, hold themselves accountable, and create environments where learning is reinforced—not abandoned once a program concludes.

Why This Matters:
Sustainable leadership isn’t about one great story, one inspiring speech, or one coaching engagement. It’s about building listening muscles, creating shared accountability, and allowing learning to become part of how leaders show up every day.

As Jerome notes, when leadership behaviors truly “get into your bones,” they stop being techniques—and start becoming who you are.

Narativ’s online course in partnership with New Mexico State University Global Campus:
Lead With Your Story (self-paced, on-demand course)
Podcast listeners get 25% off - Use code NARATIV → Register Here

Learn more about how to leverage Narativ’s storytelling method for your pitch and sales team: Download our free e-book, or you’re welcome to schedule a free 15-minute call with Jerome.

Please join our mailing list to stay updated on all our latest episodes and events.

EMAIL Jerome@narativ.com
LINKEDIN https://www.linkedin.com/company/narativ-inc
TWITTER @narativ

Buy Julienne’s book here

In this special Valentine’s Day reflection, Jerome and Julienne step away from frameworks and techniques to explore a living example of leadership through presence, listening, and love.

Inspired by the journey of Buddhist monks walking from Texas to Washington, DC, the episode invites listeners to reconsider what it means to show up for others—quietly, intentionally, and without agenda. As communities gather along the monks’ path, the conversation reflects on listening as an act of love and on the power of collective humanity, especially in times of division and conflict.

You'll hear:

• Why the monks’ journey resonates so deeply right now

• Listening as a practice—not a skill, but a way of being
• What leadership can look like when presence replaces performance
• How Valentine’s Day might be reclaimed as a broader expression of kindness and care
• The quiet power of collective action grounded in intention rather than spectacle.

Resources

• Buddhist Monks’ Walking Journey (Video)
A short video highlighting the monks’ walk from Texas to Washington, DC and the communities gathering along the way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCCGjskeFI

Narativ’s online course in partnership with New Mexico State University Global Campus:
Lead With Your Story (self-paced, on-demand course)
Podcast listeners get 25% off - Use code NARATIV → Register Here

Learn more about how to leverage Narativ’s storytelling method for your pitch and sales team: Download our free e-book, or you’re welcome to schedule a free 15-minute call with Jerome.

Please join our mailing list to stay updated on all our latest episodes and events.

EMAIL Jerome@narativ.com
LINKEDIN https://www.linkedin.com/company/narativ-inc
TWITTER @narativ

Buy Julienne’s book here

In this episode of Leadership Story Talks, Jerome Deroy and Julienne Ryan sit down with Jim O’Gorman to explore how formative leadership experiences—both painful and inspiring—shape the way we show up for others at work.

Jim opens with a candid story from early in his career: working for a deeply toxic boss and the toll it took on his confidence, health, and sense of self. That experience became a defining catalyst, ultimately guiding him toward a career dedicated to people strategy, trust, and humane leadership.

From there, the conversation moves into Jim’s time on the Obama campaign, where he witnessed firsthand the power of authentic storytelling—not as persuasion, but as connection. That experience continues to influence how he thinks about leadership, values, and culture today.

As Chief People Officer at Included Health, Jim shares how storytelling, vulnerability, and values-based decision-making aren’t “nice to haves,” but core leadership competencies—especially when trust, safety, and belonging are on the line. He also offers a thoughtful perspective on remote work, arguing that there is no universal answer—only alignment between values, mission, and how work actually gets done.

This episode is a grounded, practical exploration of what it really means to lead with authenticity—and why stories remain one of the most powerful tools leaders have to create trust, navigate complexity, and raise the standard for how people experience work.

You’ll Hear:

• Why a “terrible boss” can become a powerful leadership teacher
• How authentic storytelling builds trust, safety, and belonging on teams
• What Jim learned about leadership and connection on the Obama campaign
• Why values—not perks—are what truly retain people
• How Included Health aligns mission, culture, and people strategy
• A clear-eyed take on remote work, trust, and intentional connection
• Why leaders must go first when it comes to vulnerability and honesty
• How storytelling can restore healthier debate and discourse at work

Resources & Links

• Connect with Jim O’Gorman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-o-gorman-0b32278/
• Learn more about Included Health: https://includedhealth.com/
• Explore more episodes and resources at: https://narativ.com/podcast

Narativ’s online course in partnership with New Mexico State University Global Campus:
Lead With Your Story (self-paced, on-demand course)
Podcast listeners get 25% off - Use code NARATIV → Register Here

Learn more about how to leverage Narativ’s storytelling method for your pitch and sales team: Download our free e-book, or you’re welcome to schedule a free 15-minute call with Jerome.

Please join our mailing list to stay updated on all our latest episodes and events.

EMAIL Jerome@narativ.com
LINKEDIN https://www.linkedin.com/company/narativ-inc
TWITTER @narativ

Buy Julienne’s book here