Author and futurist James Wallman has spent decades making a simple but radical case: that we are moving from materialism to experientialism, toward a world where experiences, more than things, shape our culture, our economy, and our sense of what's possible.

In this episode of White Water, Maya sits down with James to talk about the slow, relentless work of building something you believe should exist—long before there's proof, polish, or consensus. From founding the World Experience Organization—the world's first global institution dedicated to the experience economy—to cultivating a truly international community of designers, strategists, and makers, James shares what it takes to turn conviction into infrastructure.

Together, Maya and James unpack the reality of community-building as a business practice: the patience it demands, the responsibility it carries, and the emotional endurance required to stay with an idea over time. They explore the experience economy not as a buzzword, but as a human-centered shift—one that asks leaders to think beyond transactions and toward transformation.

A bestselling author (Stuffocation, Time and How to Spend It), keynote speaker, and advisor to everyone from global brands to cultural institutions, James is both a thinker and a doer. His story is a masterclass in perseverance, belief, and the quiet courage it takes to build something simply because it should exist.

Listen in as Maya and James talk about White Water at scale—the uncertain, unglamorous middle where vision outruns the map, community is forged slowly, and meaningful change only happens if you're willing to keep going without guarantees.

Learn more about James and the WXO here: www.worldxo.org

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White Water is a podcast about creative urgency and the magical things that happen when we 'ride the wave' of life.

Hosted by Maya Guice, business storyteller and Founder of Panakin Studios, each episode features candid stories of tenacity and grit from individuals leading creative ventures that span industries, mediums, and borders. If you've got an idea and don't know where to start, come hang out with us in the white water!

Panakin Studios is an interdisciplinary shop of thinkers and doers. Medium-agnostic, we're half think-tank, half content studio, creating a whole machine that produces new stories for smart audiences. www.panakin.co