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Frank and Stan Chats

Frank and Stan Chats

Von: Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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 Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.

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© 2023 Frank and Stan Chats
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  • Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT

    Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT
    Nov 19 2025
    With over 250 weekly Frank and Stan Chat, including nearly 20 SPOTLIGHT editions, the bar is high in terms of guests making a highly positive impression. What becomes clear in this SPOTLIGHT with Les Walton is that there is a highly experienced colleague with a clear philosophy and a burning ambition to encourage collaboration and cooperation. In an earlier part of his life he led a Primary school, a College, set up Schools North East and advised a number of PMs on education policy. If you have a spare 40 minutes I suggest you sit back and listen carefully to his insight and reflect on its relevance in your school or College. One of the very best Chats we have been fortunate to undertake. Enjoy.

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    45 Min.
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 240

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 240
    Nov 14 2025

    This is a really important weekly chat because every year we invite Carolyn Eyre, a professional colleague well informed in the area of child protection and safeguarding. Her chats always cover areas that we have missed, and highlights changes that are afoot. She believes we are at the start of a storm, and many appear unaware that the storm is coming.


    Stan considers the likely impact of the government setting an expected national standard of 75% for children to reach 'a good level of development' in Early Years. He references Goodhart's law, which states, "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". Carolyn then explains what changes and proposed laws, currently being progressed through Parliament, will have a significant impact on Keeping Children Safe. She also unpicks skilfully Ofsted's weaknesses in how safeguarding is inspected. Frank then considers the research published by the University of Manchester in October 2025, 'Lost learning: Prevalence, inequalities and outcomes of internal exclusion in mainstream secondary schools' by Emma Thornton, Qiqi Cheng, Ola Demkowicz and Neil Humphrey, which examines the reasons for isolation, who are more often given it and its impact on those students and those who are not. The results are surprising and challenging.


    You would expect us to say how good the chat is, but I suspect there is quite a lot in this discussion which would be of interest to many in schools, parents/carers and education leaders in general.

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    58 Min.
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 239

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 239
    Nov 6 2025
    This week the gents chat with Alex Howarth, a Director of a large accountancy business and proud father of three young girls. Stan kicks things off considering the use of 'case sampling' in the new Ofsted school inspection Framework. He's concerned with the approach and how it could lead to weak evaluations by inspectors. Alex then reflects on the shift to more practical mathematics contained in the Francis Curriculum Review. Frank then considers the importance of oracy in the future and how disappointing it is to see the emphasis on traditional examinations being maintained. He suggests this counters the shift for oracy to be an integral part of all subjects. The chat then considers the Engalnd cricket team's chances of regaining the Ashes this winter.

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    37 Min.
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