I interview Canadian political scientist Daniel A. Bell (University of Hong Kong) about his latest book Why Ancient Chinese Political Thought Matters and how Chinese political theory broadens a West-centric Anglophone canon. Bell explains major pre-unification traditions—Confucianism (graded love, harmony, ritual, soft power, political meritocracy), Legalism (state-strengthening through uniform, ruthless law and fear), Mohism (populist focus on material welfare and opposition to state-funded ritual/music), and Taoism (skepticism of social engineering and preference for limited state action)—and notes their modern revival after 20th-century anti-traditionalism and the Cultural Revolution. We discuss timeless debates on corruption, family law, culture funding, just war, and idealism vs. realism (including Xunzi vs. Legalists), Bell's argument in The China Model for legitimate variation beyond "one person, one vote," sources of legitimacy in China, Xi's role versus structural pressures, and the need for more people-to-people engagement to reduce demonization and improve US–China understanding.

(02:43) West Centric Theory(04:29) Writing The Book(05:59) Schools Of Thought(06:49) Confucians Explained(08:35) Legalists And Power(10:07) Mohists And Populism(10:56) Taoism And Withdrawal(11:56) Ancient Debates Today(15:08) Idealism Versus Realism(18:49) Confucianism Endures(23:02) Traditions In The 1900s(29:29) Lessons For Western Leaders(30:18) Ritual Music And Order(31:40) Just War And Intervention(32:55) Harmony Not Conformity(33:56) Confucian Harmony Not Sameness(35:44) Just War and Tyranny(37:04) Questioning One Person One Vote(39:17) Why Meritocracy Fits China(43:03) Cultural Fit and Export Failures(46:42) Western Thinkers in China(48:03) Censorship and Reform Prospects(49:38) Xi Versus Structural Forces(52:54) Legitimacy Performance and Trust(56:03) Taiwan Prosperity and AI Optimism(58:30) More Participation Not Elections(59:46) Meritocracy Weak Spots and Dialogue

Read Daniel A. Bell's books

Conversation with Washington Post columnist and political scientist Shadi Hamid on American power, democracy, and the case for hegemony in the 21st century

Is America a force for good in the world? It's a question that has become increasingly uncomfortable to ask—and even more uncomfortable to answer. In this episode of Due Diligence, I sit down with political scientist, columnist, and author Shadi Hamid to explore one of the central tensions of modern politics: how should we think about American power in a world where power is unavoidable? Drawing from his new book, The Case for American Power, Shadi argues that while America has often fallen short of its ideals, it remains the least bad option in a world where someone will inevitably wield power.

Throughout the conversation, we wrestle with a question that sits at the heart of Due Diligence: How do we hold America accountable for its failures without losing sight of what makes the American project worth preserving? Whether you're skeptical of American power, broadly supportive of it, or deeply conflicted about both, this conversation offers a thoughtful exploration of democracy, empire, idealism, realism, and the future of the international order.

(00:43) Meet Shadi Hamid

(01:56) Why power must be embraced

(04:14) Why America is morally superior among great powers

(05:28) The Nirvana fallacy

(09:28) Is American foreign policy responsive to democracy?

(12:09) How Gaza became a progressive litmus test

(15:13) James Baldwin's argument

(17:37) Why Democratic pride in America collapsed

(20:44) Pride in country vs. love of country

(25:17) Why American hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug

(33:50) Sincerity vs. propaganda

(36:21) Why having ideals makes America different

(37:53) Why presidents fold on their foreign policy promises

(41:15) The Obama tragedy & disappointment

(42:59) How Obama obstructed Arab democracy

(45:37) The uncomfortable reason America doesn't support Arab democracy

(48:02) When America chose the moral path

(51:23) Why supporting democracy is in America's self-interest

(54:27) Why China's rise has been overstated

(59:43) The role of cultural values in democracy

(01:03:50) Idealism vs. realism

(01:06:35) The challenge of writing this book

(01:08:54) Why America's advantage is immigration

About Shadi Hamid

Shadi Hamid is a columnist at The Washington Post, where he focuses on culture, religion and foreign policy. He is also a senior fellow at Georgetown University’s Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding. Previously, he was a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. Hamid is the author of several books, including most recently, “The Case For American Power.”

In 2019, Hamid was named one of the world’s top 50 thinkers by Prospect magazine. He is also the co-founder of “Wisdom of Crowds,” a podcast, newsletter and debate platform. Hamid received his B.S. and M.A. from Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service and his PhD in political science from Oxford University, where he was a Marshall Scholar.

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This is a solo episode on how AI may reshape the infrastructure of our economy and how it is forcing us to reckon with our values across economics, culture, and policy at a historical inflection point. This crisis is our opportunity to reshape our economic system to work for everyone — and ask ourselves how we might steer towards a post-scarcity future oriented around unlocking greater individual human potential at scale.

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