In Part 2 of my conversation with Rachel Samson and Dr. Jessie Stern, we explore how these patterns play out in relationships and what to do about them.

Inside this episode:

• Why schemas and coping modes develop in childhood
• The classic anxious–avoidant pursue/withdraw loop and why it feels so stuck
• How to recognize flooding and use structured breaks that protect both partners
• The difference between boundaries and ultimatums (and why social media gets this wrong)
• Common attachment myths that keep us feeling broken or stuck
• Why deep listening may be the single most powerful skill for every human relationship

Whether you’re in a romantic partnership, parenting, or navigating workplace dynamics, these tools will help you shift from me vs. you into us vs. the problem.

What you’ll learn

• How avoidant partners shut down to self-protect (and how to reconnect)
• Why anxious partners amplify pursuit (and how to soothe instead)
• How to make breaks work instead of backfiring
• Why healthy relationships do have conflict — but repair faster

Resources & tools

• Free 7 Steps to Effective Breaks guide: https://www.drkatiestirling.com/download-deescalate-tool

• Free The 4 Horsemen & Their Antidotes ebook: https://stan.store/drkatiestirling/p/stop-reactive-communication--free-guide
• Program: Relationship Reset Bootcamp https://www.drkatiestirling.com/course/relationship-reset

🔗 Connect with Rachel & Dr. Jessie

Rachel Samson: @australianpsychologist

Dr. Jessie Stern: @drjessiestern

📖 Get their book Beyond Difficult: https://www.readings.com.au/product/9781923046597/beyond-difficult--jessie-stern-rachel-samson--2025--9781923046597

👩‍⚕️ Connect with Dr. Katie

Instagram: @drkatiestirling

YouTube: Call Me Katie Podcast Join Katie’s Online Relationship Reset: https://www.drkatiestirling.com/course/relationship-reset

Website: www.drkatiestirling.com

👉 This is Part 2 of our conversation. Don’t miss Part 1, where we explore how attachment, temperament and neurobiology shape the way we interact in relationships: https://youtu.be/HyqWEyCDorA