Why do we do what we do? Behavioral Grooves explores the science of human behavior with researchers, authors, and thinkers who help us make sense of ourselves, each other, and the world around us.

Have we misunderstood two of psychology’s most famous experiments? We revisit the Stanford Prison Experiment and the Robbers Cave experiment with science historians Thibault Le Texier and Gina Perry, who uncovered a much messier story behind the research we learned about in school. What can these experiments actually tell us about human behavior, and what happens when researchers become more invested in a specific conclusion than challenging their own assumptions?

[0:00] Two Famous Experiments, One Bigger Problem [6:47] Part One: The Stanford Prison Experiment [12:26] Were the Guards Coached to Be Cruel? [18:14] Is the Real Lesson About Leadership? [19:22] Part Two: The Robbers Cave Experiment [24:04] The Forgotten Middle Grove Experiment [28:38] Engineering the Robbers Cave Experiment [32:38] What Can We Actually Learn From These Experiments? [36:09] When the Story Gets in the Way of the Science [41:36] What Happens When a Story Sounds Too Tidy?

©2026 Behavioral Grooves

Investigating the Stanford Prison Experiment: History of a Lie by Thibault Le Texier

About Gina Perry

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Horse meat, kidneys, prostitution. What happens when the things people want to buy, sell, and trade collide with what society has deemed “off-limits”? Nobel Prize-winning economist Alvin “Al” Roth joins us to explore the behavioral science behind controversial markets, from repugnance and social norms to black markets, incentives, and informed consent. We also dig into his work redesigning the kidney exchange market and how asking a different question can open up new possibilities for solving seemingly impossible problems.

[0:00] Intro and Speed Round with Alvin “Al” Roth

[9:21] What Is a Market?

[13:10] Repugnance vs. Disgust

[20:00] How Social Norms Shape Markets and Morality

[24:12] Do Laws Change Morality, or Does Morality Change Laws?

[28:25] Drugs, Hitmen, and the Social Support Behind a Ban

[34:23] Rethinking the Market for Prostitution

[38:12] Can Money Be Coercive?

[46:12] Redesigning Kidney Donation With Incentives

[50:42] What Do We Do When the Data Can't Change Minds?

[52:47] “Ought Implies Can” and the Limits of Moral Rules

[1:03:05] Grooving Session: What We Learned From Al Roth

©2026 Behavioral Grooves

About Alvin E. Roth

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Paul Simon - You Can Call Me Al

Leonard Cohen - I’m Your Man