"Bravery for them is, well, I can sack 12,000 people and I can do it in an email at 9:30 on a Monday morning. That's not bravery, that's cowardice. I would look them in their face and go, you're a coward. Just because you've got the power…it doesn't make you brave at all."

When is a "brave" decision really just avoiding humanity? David McQueen, leadership consultant, speaker, and author joins me for a provocative and honest conversation about change, leadership, and the myth of bravery at work.

We discuss the doors that open when you seize terrifying opportunities like leaping into national TV late in life and why fame isn't always what it seems. David shares his passion for helping leaders make better, more human decisions, and the legacy he hopes to leave through empowering others, not being centre stage himself.

Highlights:

00:00 Bravery vs. cowardice in leadership

02:32 Who is David McQueen?

03:40 Why we keep making the same mistakes

06:23 TV, Channel 4, TED Global, and working with Richard Branson

10:05 Why David chose impact over fame

13:26 The real legacy: empowering others, not being centre stage

14:19 "Personal brand" is capitalism, why David McQueen resists it

16:11 Using humour to create safety and challenge bias on stage

19:00 Why relatable storytelling beats "superhuman" motivation

22:18 Mistakes, vulnerability, and creating genuine connection

30:18 Writing "Brave" and the problem with "boldness"

36:12 Systemic barriers and why most senior men aren't equipped to lead women

38:19 Why "bold" doesn't mean harmful, true courage is facing discomfort

44:22 Curiosity, creativity, and the dangers of a frictionless, AI-driven world

51:38 Why we need tension and real argument to stay human.

David's Change Toolkit:

Book: Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler (plus The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho and On Writing by Stephen King)

Soundtrack: "Breezin" by George Benson & The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill by Lauryn Hill

One piece of advice: "Live full and die empty" - take all the opportunities you can to make the most of life, and leave nothing behind.

About David:

David McQueen works with CEOs and founder-owners on the decisions that shape the future of their organisations. His work spans advisory, speaking, and leadership development, all grounded in a body of thinking focused on how leaders decide well when the stakes are high.

He is the author of The BRAVE Leader, a study of leadership in conditions of uncertainty: the characteristics that allow leaders to navigate complexity with clarity and the habits that quietly undermine them.

His advisory work focuses on three areas where the quality of thinking and judgement has an outsized impact on what happens next: scaling, capital, and succession. His speaking reaches senior leadership audiences across sectors and geographies through keynotes and masterclasses.

He has worked with organisations across financial services, technology, consumer, professional services, and the third sector, at every stage from early-scale to pre-exit.

Connect with David:

Website: https://davidmcqueen.co.uk/

Work with Eleanor

Buy the Book - Another Door Opens; 5 steps for navigating change. Described as 'Game changing' 'Brilliant' 'A must read' 'The best book on change'.

Eleanor supports individuals, teams and organisations through change. Whether it's coaching or large scale organisational change through communications and training.

Work with Eleanor 121 as your coach, when you are starting something new, to develop the idea, to create the idea, to get it launched.

Book in a Change Mastery for a team session - when your team is navigating change.

Book in a 90 minute workshop - to think through change at work.

Instagram:instagram/anotherdooruk

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-tweddell/

Website: www.another-door-opens.com

Produced by winteraudio.co.uk

"I'm speaking from proof, from experience…I do believe, if you really, really, really want to do something, you can."

What happens when doors open to unimaginable fame, and then close again, leaving you to find a new way forward?

In this very honest episode, Anthony Hutton, Big Brother winner, barber, and founder of Never Throw in the Towel joins me for a conversation about navigating extremes: overnight celebrity, public success, private struggles, and the reinvention forced by change.

We chat about the unglamorous aftermath of reality TV victory,and why delusion and vision matter. We also explore letting go of identity, and how real stories can inspire a new purpose.

Anthony also shares how sitting with discomfort, and real messy chats in the barber's chair, and a late grandmother's legacy shaped his journey into men's mental health advocacy and why it's never too late to open a new door, no matter how messy it gets.

Highlights:

00:00 Intro: From Big Brother highs to rock bottom, meet Anthony Hutton

06:03 Early family life, football dreams, and the drive to prove himself

12:22 "I need to get on TV." Delusion and manifesting reality TV

14:25 The wins you get from a "failed" dream

18:28 Self-belief versus delusion, the power of "just being ridiculous"

20:10 "You have to work for it." What cranking yourself up to 10 looks like

26:31 What reality TV is really like behind the scenes

29:59 The "dirty word" of wanting to win

33:13 What happens when the door opens, the euphoria of overnight fame

34:52 The deal: £200k OK! photoshoot to wild celebrity nights

38:28 Door closing: fame fades and the slow, painful return to "normal"

41:27 Losing friends, lost identity, and being a "has-been" in his twenties

45:03 Moving, cutting out the chaos, and getting back to barbering

46:45 Becoming a listener and "unofficial therapist" for men

48:08 Grandma's death, and the birth of 'Never Throw in the Towel'

51:24 From free haircuts to men's meetups

54:37 The power of honest conversations and using LinkedIn

64:27 Landing the show… and finding gold in facing the mess.

Anthony Hutton's Change Toolkit:

Soundtrack: "Heart's on Fire" from Rocky IV

Book: Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey

One piece of advice: "Every adversity, every failure, every heartache carries with it the seed of an equal or greater benefit."

About Anthony:

Anthony Hutton is a British television personality best known for winning Big Brother UK in 2005. Entering the house as a confident, outspoken Geordie, Anthony became a fan favourite for his humour, authenticity, and resilience, securing one of the show's most decisive public victories. Since his time on television, he has transitioned into meaningful advocacy work as a keynote speaker and founder of the Never Throw In The Towel project. Through this initiative, Anthony supports men's mental health, encouraging open conversations, resilience, and practical tools to help men work through mental health challenges and personal setbacks.

Connect with Anthony:

Website: https://neverthrowinthetowel.com/

Work with Eleanor

Buy the Book - Another Door Opens; 5 steps for navigating change. Described as 'Game changing' 'Brilliant' 'A must read' 'The best book on change'.

Eleanor supports individuals, teams and organisations through change. Whether it's coaching or large scale organisational change through communications and training.

Work with Eleanor 121 as your coach, when you are starting something new, to develop the idea, to create the idea, to get it launched.

Book in a Change Mastery for a team session - when your team is navigating change.

Book in a 90 minute workshop - to think through change at work.

Instagram:instagram/anotherdooruk

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/eleanor-tweddell/

Website: www.another-door-opens.com

Produced by winteraudio.co.uk