If you’ve ever wondered whether recovery can feel more practical, more flexible, and more grounded in science, this conversation opens that door. We sit down with SMART Recovery’s executive director, Pete Rubinas, to explore a peer-led model that pairs individual agency with supportive community - without sponsors, required labels, or prescribed beliefs.

Pete Rubinas shares his path from participant to facilitator to director, then takes us inside a typical SMART meeting: clear guidelines, honest check-ins, crosstalk that invites dialogue, and tool-driven conversations rooted in CBT and motivational interviewing. We dig into the Four-Point Program and the Family & Friends handbook, why writing things down reduces self-deception, and how participants use practical worksheets to make real changes between meetings. If you’re earlier in the stages of change, you’ll hear how SMART welcomes varied goals—abstinence, moderation, or harm reduction - and respects your right to change your mind as you learn.

We also widen the lens beyond alcohol and drugs. Because SMART is behavioral, the same tools apply to challenges like overeating, pornography, or workaholism. That mix helps people see shared patterns and feel less alone, supported by self-compassion and mindfulness instead of shame. Pete explains SMART’s rapid growth, the rise of online and affinity meetings (including daily options for veterans and first responders), and partnerships with treatment programs and peer recovery specialists who champion multiple pathways. Throughout, we return to a simple idea: people do better when you offer real choices, clear tools, and a community where change feels possible.

Ready to explore another pathway or add something new? Listen now, then try an online meeting, grab the handbook, and tell us what resonates. If this conversation helped, subscribe, share it with someone who needs hope, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

Other useful links from Brett:

• Sober Curious Consulting - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business.
• How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot.
• Brett's YouTube channel
• Washington Recovery Alliance - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State.
• Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor.
• Data on SUD in the US (2024) - from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics.
• Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and ...

What if the right words could loosen shame’s grip and make change feel possible? That’s the question we chase with poet, educator, and “narrative disruptor” Joseph Green as we unpack how labels shape identity, how language can block help or build it, and why redefining recovery around health and contribution saves lives.

We dig into a more generous frame: recovery as the ongoing practice of seeking health, adding value, and designing supports that fit real bodies and real lives, including medication-assisted treatment and mental health meds. Joseph shares his own regimen without shame and talks about building a tripod of care - bio support, daily practices, and honest relationships - so anxiety no longer leads.

Art runs through the story. Joseph traces how performance anxiety fused with substances in college, how quitting meant stepping off stage, and how purpose brought him back. A friend’s death, a hotel room, and a poem became a literal turning point - choosing craft over the bar and using art to serve people instead of ego. We explore youth work, from coaching debate to leading a nonprofit that powered poetry slams and classroom programs across dozens of schools. He reflects on intergenerational community and how creative expression gives teens language to weather their storms.

At home, Joseph and his family practice openness. He talks with his kids about addiction in plain words, teaches breathing and chanting, and centers expression over suppression. The conversation builds to a live spoken word performance - raw, precise, and unforgettable - on telling the hard truths that can keep someone alive. Come for the poetry, stay for the practical tools, and leave with a new way to talk about recovery, stigma, and the everyday rituals that make healing stick.

If this moved you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review with your favorite line from the poem. Your words help more people find theirs.

More info on Joseph Green:

LMS Voice - Founded by award-winning storyteller Joseph Green, LMSvoice empowers organizations to transform harmful narratives into stories of connection and equity.

Joseph on LinkedIn

Other useful links from Brett:

• Sober Curious Consulting - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business.
• How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot.
• Brett's YouTube channel
• Washington Recovery Alliance - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State.
• Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor.
• Data on SUD in the US (2024) - from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics.
• Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and ...

Chris Haugen's transformation from a touring guitarist juggling substance issues to a focused recording artist with nearly half a million monthly Spotify listeners stands as powerful testimony to what happens when creative energy finds proper channeling.

"Taking a lot of chaotic energy and streaming it down to one solid, focused beam" is how Chris describes his current creative process three years into sobriety. The results speak volumes—his monthly listeners jumped from 3,000 to 480,000, a testament not to diminished creativity but to enhanced focus and artistic direction.

The conversation explores Chris's journey through recovery, including his initial resistance to labels and programs. What makes this story particularly compelling is his honesty about the subtle whispers that preceded his decision to get sober—what he calls "guardian angel moments" where circumstances mysteriously intervened just as he was about to make destructive choices. One night at a Zen monastery, his car lights inexplicably failed as he contemplated driving to a liquor store, a small intervention that spoke volumes.

Perhaps most encouraging is Chris's experience finding community with other musicians who don't drink—a natural gravitation toward healthier environments that nurture rather than threaten his growth. His poetic description of sobriety as "a blinking neon light that never turns off, a glass of water balanced on my head, a good surf lesson, a clear mind" captures the vigilance, responsibility, self-care, and clarity that come with the journey.

Want to experience the musical results of this transformation? Check out Chris Haugen's compositions on Spotify or catch him performing at Imagine Fest on Orcas Island. His journey reminds us that sometimes our greatest creative breakthroughs happen not when we dull our senses, but when we sharpen them through clarity and presence.

• Chris Haugen Website
• Chris Haugen on Spotify
• Chris Haugen on YouTube
• YouTube Studio (you'll need to be logged in)
• Chris's Facebook post

Other useful links from Brett:

• Sober Curious Consulting - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business.
• How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot.
• Brett's YouTube channel
• Washington Recovery Alliance - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State.
• Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor.
• Data on SUD in the US (2024) - from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics.
• Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and ...