In this episode of Dylan and Wes Interview, we dive deep into why Lee Cronin says today's "AI" is a powerful tool, not a mind. He argues doomsday AGI stories lack a mechanism, while the real risks are fake people, poisoned data, and manipulation. We unpack his idea that causation is "memory" in the universe, selection is a force like gravity, and life is "complex stuff at scale" (assembly theory). Then we map intelligence as evolution -> sensing -> memory -> consciousness -> imagination -> free will, and why curiosity is the safe balance between exploration and exploitation for survival.

Andon Labs tests AI autonomy by letting agents run businesses in messy reality with real customers, consequences. In VendingBench, an agent starts with $500 and an empty vending machine, researches trends and suppliers, emails wholesalers, restocks, tracks sales, and iterates for profit. When deployed at Anthropic, humans red-teamed it with sob stories, discount demands, and bizarre requests like tungsten cubes, triggering “bank runs” of freebie seekers. Long histories caused drift and hallucinations, including dramatic escalations and invented security reports. Multi-agent supervisors often amplified each other into hype or doom. Better tools and memory compression help, but long-horizon planning stays fragile.

In this episode of Wes and Dylan Interview, we dive deep into Avi Loeb’s bold idea that humanity may soon meet a cosmic neighbor whose wisdom dwarfs ours, reshaping belief itself. Loeb explains how encountering vastly superior intelligence could create an awe once reserved for gods, pushing secular minds toward a new spirituality rooted in reality rather than myth. The conversation explores how traditional doctrines might seem parochial beside undeniable evidence of a civilizational older sibling dwelling among the stars. Prepare to rethink religion, humility, and humanity’s place in the universe after listening to this mind-stretching exchange beginning to end.