🎙️ This episode was recorded jointly with the So, Who Cares Anyway? podcast, hosted by Ruth Germaine.

In this warm, wide-ranging episode, I’m chatting to fellow podcaster and Darzi alumna Ruth Germaine to explore what it really takes to tackle healthcare’s “wicked problems” through coproduction.

A powerful invitation to think differently.

Drawing on our shared roots in the Darzi Fellowship network, we reflect on why lived experience, curiosity and relationship-building matter far more than tick-boxes and tidy solutions.

I share my journey from social care and local government, through cancer, to creating Whose Shoes?® - a deceptively simple, colourful board-game approach that opens up honest conversations between people, professionals and those in positions of power. Along the way, we explore the power of poetry, the beach-ball metaphor, and why Whose Shoes scenarios are so open-ended – the discussion will be the one YOU need to have.

Our conversation ranges from maternity services in Buckinghamshire to SEND roadshows and a neonatal unit in Liverpool, illustrating how ‘planting seeds’ can lead to outcomes no one could predict at the start.

We also reflect on the challenge of evidencing impact, the limits of KPIs, and a Whose Shoes hallmark: the pledge - small or bold actions, taken from the heart. #NoHierarchyJustPeople

This is an episode about creativity, courage, and the quiet magic that happens when people feel truly heard.

🍋💡 🍋 Lemon Lightbulbs

1. Co-production isn’t a method - it’s a mindset
   If people don’t genuinely feel valued and listened to, no tool will save you.
2. The answers are in the room
   Real change starts with free-flowing conversations, not a prescriptive agenda
3. You can promise something will happen - just not what
   That uncertainty isn’t a flaw; it’s the essence of true co-production
4. People see through tick-box listening instantly
   You can’t fake curiosity or shortcut trust
5. Creativity creates capacity - even when time is tight
   Fun, colour and poetry don’t distract from serious work; they unlock it
6. Ripples to ... IMPACT!
   A conversation can lead — unexpectedly — to things as big as a new neonatal unit
7. Just because it's countable, doesn't mean it's what matters most
   What matters most (trust, insight, confidence, connection) rarely fits a KPI
8. The best change work draws people in
   When it’s real, people text friends: “Get down here — this is different.”
9. Pledges work because they’re personal
   Small actions “from the heart” beat grand strategies
10. Learning happens with people, not to them
    Networks for learning together generally beat programmes and courses

LINKS

So, Who Cares Anyway? Podcast by Ruth Germaine

It takes a Village - Buckinghamshire maternity Whose Shoes? event

Whose Shoes? comes to Nottingham

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I tweet as @WhoseShoes and @WildCardWS and am on Instagram as @WildCardWS.

Please recommend 'Wild Card - Whose Shoes' to others who enjoy hearing passionate people talk about their experiences of improving health care.