In a world where marketing is often built on pressure, fear, and “gotcha” tactics, this episode is a reset.

I’m joined by Chelsea Burns, The Marketing Psychologist™ and Brand Ethicist, for a conversation about ethical marketing that actually works. Not the fluffy kind. The kind that builds real trust, creates long-term customers, and protects your reputation while still driving growth.

We break down how manipulation shows up in modern marketing (even when people don’t mean harm), why “high-converting” isn’t always healthy, and what it looks like to build a brand people choose because they feel respected, not cornered. If you’re a founder, nonprofit leader, or marketer who wants to grow without selling your soul, this one will give you language, clarity, and a better way forward.

In this episode, we cover:

• The difference between persuasion and manipulation (and why it matters)

• Common “trust leaks” in messaging, offers, and funnels

• How to market with integrity while still hitting revenue goals

• What ethical urgency looks like, without guilt or pressure

• Simple trust-building changes you can make today in your copy and content

If you’ve ever thought, “I don’t want to sound salesy, but I do want to grow,” press play. This is how you build trust and still win.

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