Most organisations are asking which AI model they should use. Patrick McQuaid thinks that is the wrong conversation.

Patrick is Group Head of Data, Analytics & AI at NGM Group. He joins James MacDonald to explain how leaders can build practical AI capability without getting trapped by hype, vendor lock-in or an endless cycle of new tools.

They discuss how NGM approaches AI inside a regulated banking environment, where privacy, risk and customer trust make it impossible to turn a weekend prototype straight into production. Patrick explains why teams need both strong foundations and useful short-term wins, why the people closest to the work should own their technology costs, and where generative AI should not be used for decision-making.

The conversation also explores what AI means for technical careers. Patrick shares why he hires for attitude, curiosity and problem-solving ability, rather than waiting for candidates with years of experience in technology that has only just emerged. He and James discuss the continuing value of junior engineers, the rise of AI enablement and orchestration roles, and the human skills that remain difficult to automate.

If you are responsible for introducing AI into an established organisation, hiring a technical team or preparing your own career for the next wave of change, this episode offers a grounded alternative to the fear and hype.

• 0:00 — Stop arguing about AI models
• 0:46 — What this episode covers
• 1:15 — Meet Patrick McQuaid
• 1:38 — Leading experts without being the deepest technical expert
• 4:37 — Deployment, flexibility and avoiding model lock-in
• 6:45 — Vibe coding versus production inside a regulated bank
• 8:30 — Shadow AI and choosing enterprise tools
• 10:10 — Junior engineers and hiring for attitude
• 16:15 — Who should own AI and token costs?
• 19:34 — Building, buying or partnering for AI capability
• 21:21 — Where generative AI does not belong
• 25:41 — Joining NGM during a major data transformation
• 30:17 — Building foundations and delivering quick wins
• 34:20 — Planning in a fast-moving AI market
• 35:45 — Agentic tools and the value of staying flexible
• 37:04 — Can specialist software companies defend their advantage?
• 39:18 — What organisations should and should not build themselves
• 41:33 — Technology's role in a human business
• 49:44 — The human skills AI cannot replace
• 52:33 — What AI could mean for the next generation
• 54:33 — Remote work, relationships and learning together
• 58:35 — Cutting through AI FOMO and LinkedIn hype
• 1:00:27 — The AI advantage for smaller organisations
• 1:01:24 — Managing legal, financial and reputational risk
• 1:06:43 — AI sycophancy and why chatbots agree with you
• 1:07:57 — The skills technology professionals should build now
• 1:09:26 — AI enablement and orchestration roles
• 1:12:46 — James's key takeaway

Patrick McQuaid GAICD is Group Head of Data, Analytics & AI at NGM Group, one of Australia's largest customer-owned banking groups. NGM Group operates the Greater Bank and Newcastle Permanent brands.

• Patrick McQuaid — LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-mcquaid/
• NGM Group: https://www.ngmgroup.com.au/
• National AI Centre: https://www.industry.gov.au/science-technology-and-innovation/technology/artificial-intelligence/national-ai-centre
• James MacDonald — LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-macdonald-au/ · NTP Talent: https://ntptalent.com.au/
• Day One: https://dayone.fm/

Hosted by James MacDonald, Managing Director of NTP Talent.

Building Tech Teams is produced by Day One®, trusted partners in the technology space and the production partner behind Blackbird Ventures' Wild Hearts. Sister shows include First Cheque, Oversubscribed and In The Blink of AI. Episodes are cross-promoted across the network.