In Episode 57, Debra and Peter tackle a big and often uncomfortable question in the charity sector: how long is too long?Prompted by a recent post from Steve Allman, the conversation explores CEO tenure, career versus cause-led leadership, and why there is no such thing as a perfect length of service. Debra reflects on her 25 years at DSC and shares the signals she looks for when thinking about whether it is time to move on. Peter adds his own experience of leadership transitions and why choosing when to leave is often a luxury most chief executives do not get.The discussion then widens to trustees and governance. With the updated Charity Governance Code introducing clearer expectations on trustee term limits, Debra and Peter debate whether rigid rules really work, particularly for small and local charities. They look at board diversity, over representation, founder syndrome, and how boards can manage renewal without losing vital skills, commitment, or goodwill.Along the way, the episode takes a lighter turn with stories about celebrities in the charity world, including Peter’s unforgettable meeting with Dolly Parton and what it taught him about public policy, influence, and preparation. They also reflect on the risks and rewards of working with well known figures and why charisma does not always mean impact.Thoughtful, candid, and full of real sector insight, this episode is a must listen for trustees, chief executives, and anyone interested in charity leadership and governance.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez